Sheppard Stubway

[unimaginative2]

I'm sure most will think it's a lot better than a bus, especially since few have experience with lousy streetcar service downtown.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

I'm not sure most will think it's better than a bus...real suburbanites do not despise buses as much as downtowners think they do, particularly on extremely high frequency routes. Everyone has experience with lousy downtown streetcar service...the mere concept of waiting 20 minutes for a bunched convoy of Sheppard streetcars to show up at Don Mills station to pick up the 1000+ people that have piled up in the meantime could be enough for SOS-type groups to form. Countering them with stuff like "Well, this is LRT, you're not understanding the differences!" simply isn't going to work.

 

[doady]

Jane Street's the only one of the seven which is highly residential from start to finish. In my opinion it should not have been selected for Transit City becuase the 35 bus often routes half-empty through parts of the day. Kipling from Humber College to Steeles West would've been the wiser choice.

Jane by itself as much ridership as Kipling and Steeles West combined.

 

[DENTROBATE54]

I'm not sure most will think it's better than a bus...real suburbanites do not despise buses as much as downtowners think they do, particularly on extremely high frequency routes. Everyone has experience with lousy downtown streetcar service...the mere concept of waiting 20 minutes for a bunched convoy of Sheppard streetcars to show up at Don Mills station to pick up the 1000+ people that have piled up in the meantime could be enough for SOS-type groups to form. Countering them with stuff like "Well, this is LRT, you're not understanding the differences!" simply isn't going to work.

The streetcar argument some LRT advocates utilize is just ludicrous and makes us all look bad. I don't think it'll matter to anyone that there'll always be a seat available for them on board if it means having to wait every 10 minutes for service. Downtown streetcars really depress me, especially during rish hour. Imagine being stuck on a vehicle watching pedestrians making more progress forward than you. I wouldn't wish that on any community. In my hope of hopes, Transit City will reflect the Queensway ROW through most of its routing: private lanes/shelters and seamless interchange points.

Jane by itself as much ridership as Kipling and Steeles West combined.

That's not the point. Jane is highly residential, meaning practically every stop will need to be stopped at for passenger pick-up/drop-off. Hence none of the current stops could be shelved to reduce travel times. The only major area along the entire 35 route, Jane and Finch, of course would already be served by Finch West LRT and be within proximity of several new subway stops.

Shifting gears to Kipling. The combined tally of routes 44, 45, 46 and 60 would be adequate enough for high-order transit. Kipling has more mixed-use potential than Jane ever will (collegiate, industrial, commercial, residential) and could generate a development boom in north Rexdale, especially along the Steeles corridor. The densest part of the Steeles West route is between Yonge and York U. Hence in the advent of Kipling LRT, the 60C branch would in effect become the primary Steeles West route. No sense holding up people's commutes down the pike for the sake of one or two riders past York U, right ?! Service west of Kipling could come via a realignment of route 191.

 

[Towered]

I think it was Steve Munro who mentioned last year that Kipling was one of several more routes that had been selected for a Transit City LRT line but was ultimately cut in order to keep the plan politically feasible. I hope it happens as a part of phase two, especially seeing how Etobicoke didn't get any north-south LRT's.

 

[Towered]

I don't think any suburbanites will object to streetcars per se. I just think that they'll flip out once they hear that their roads will lose two lanes, a whole bunch of trees will be chopped down, people's front lawns will be destroyed, and after all that their local bus stop is removed. Of course, not as angry as they'd be after all that when bunches of streetcars only show up ever 25 minutes, and it takes just as long as the old bus.

Well, let's face it - major arterial roads shouldn't have a bunch of one or two storey detached homes on them anyway.

 

[RedRocket191]

Well, let's face it - major arterial roads shouldn't have a bunch of one or two storey detached homes on them anyway.

Or backing on to them, for that matter

 

[Towered]

^^ Tell me about it. There's a lot of that nonsense north of Eglinton on Kipling - what a depressing streetscape that makes! Hard to believe the city allowed that to happen. I would love to see major streets like Islington and Kipling redeveloped with a mix of traditional retail strips built to the sidewalk, interspersed with mid and high rise residential/commercial/office, but I fear it might be an impossible dream. Then again look at how Sheppard has been changing.

 

[doady]

That's not the point. Jane is highly residential, meaning practically every stop will need to be stopped at for passenger pick-up/drop-off. Hence none of the current stops could be shelved to reduce travel times.

ALL three of them are highly residential, not that the amount of residential has any effect of stop spacing anyways... None of the corridors are Avenues, so the one with by far highest ridership is the best.

 

[RedRocket191]

I doubt we will see it in the next 20 years, but perhaps when the cost of oil is at $8.00 a litre, we will be able to make a convincing argument that increasing density by replacing these houses will be worth the disruption.

 

[Dan416]

Ugh I hate houses that back onto arterial roads. There's a lot of that in Brampton.

 

[afransen]

I doubt we will see it in the next 20 years, but perhaps when the cost of oil is at $8.00 a litre, we will be able to make a convincing argument that increasing density by replacing these houses will be worth the disruption.

I'm not sure it will ever be that expensive to run a car. Battery-electric will take over well before $8.00/L gasoline happens.

 

[DENTROBATE54]

ALL three of them are highly residential, not that the amount of residential has any effect of stop spacing anyways... None of the corridors are Avenues, so the one with by far highest ridership is the best.

Yeah you're right but Jane Street is largely residential from start to finish though with the only 'major' development occuring at intersections with concession roads (Lawrence, Wilson and Finch).

Kipling has more of a mixed use vibe to it. If successful as a LRT line, instead of routing on Steeles to Steeles West Stn there'd even be justification for extending Kipling from where it peters out just north of Steeles to downtown Woodbridge, creating a seamless link between Woodbridge> Albion Mal> Eglinton Crosstown> Bloor Danforth subway> Humber College.

We'll probably still wind up with a Jane Street TC line that'll be buried from St Clair to the BD line. I just think it'd be a more suitable mixed local/express bus corridor.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

If Transfer City lines were built as rapid transit instead of local service routes, a Kipling line from Humber to way up north would see higher ridership than Jane (whose ridership projections have always seemed very inflated). I think that Kipling stealing riders from Martin Grove & Islington and the Spadina extension stealing riders from Jane would put Kipling over the top. That's if we're basing this on pure total ridership, which isn't as useful a stat as it seems.

 

[xstatik]

There really should be another option.
As Scarborough Town Centre already has the LRT, how about extending the Sheppard Subway North-West to the new Downtown Markham development at Warden - 407. With over 40,000+ new residents in downtown Markham, a subway would be well used.