Sheppard Stubway

[DENTROBATE54]

Why not just have both combined into one line?

Train turnback would take forever. The downside to long-distance subways is one side can have effortless service while the other can be bogged down with system delays the result of atomspheric conditions, switch problems, on-board emergencies, even jumpers. Instead of wishing for a single 100-station line maybe we'd be better off exploring the economical, easy-to-setup and quick to put into operations glories of LRT/BRT.

At any route given that BD stretches past Kipling and Sheppard only starts at Yonge, the line with the better rationale to extend to Markham Rd, hitting STC from the northeast is the Sheppard Line.

 

[rpgr]

There's no doubt that they should finish the system. As is, it would be a huge waste of money to close it and turn it into something else. The potential is there for the system to be ridden and for it to have high ridership. The only thing that is holding it back are the bitter folks.

Oh well, not much we can do about it until all those nice condos get built. If it does go as we hope it will then they will probably have to revisit the stubway.

Of course we have to also hope that the condos are built (and people move in) faster than the LRT system.

So many factors, so many problems and politiking for all the wrong reasons...

 

[Le Gique]

which bitter folks? you mean the taxpayers -- i mean citizens -- who have refused to establish unlimited credit for subway building?

okay, 'unlimited' sounds like i just chased lemon with salt, only

so the harris kids forked up enough for one stubway, reluctantly

now the miginty kids are more generous, but how generous do you wager?

we got the sorbara line and maybe the Yonge line extension, and suddenly everybody (who's not already an Alpenbitter-swilling, defeatist, LRT-loving reprobate) feels and hopes that oodles of subway-level cash will arrive because of positive thinking and good campaigning

okay, let's start the positive thinking and good campaigning right here.

first part of the strategy: focus our attention on those transit-advocates-who-think-too-small-i-mean-WTF-did-they-grow-up-during-the Depression-or-something? damned geezers.

getting my hypocritical drift? -- way to go, belittling other pro-transit folks who have (partly) divergent views instead of focusing on widening the money envelope entirely

it's great when otherwise allied groups pull the divide-and-conquer schtick on themselves before any real opponents do it for them

so hit me with the shillelagh already, cuz wee Jimmy O'Flaherty ain't on this board

or maybe he is...

PS: Èirinn gu bràth. (go on a search before smashing yer chin with yer knee)

 

[RedRocket191]

There's no doubt that they should finish the system. As is, it would be a huge waste of money to close it and turn it into something else. The potential is there for the system to be ridden and for it to have high ridership. The only thing that is holding it back are the bitter folks.

I might as well put a target on my back by saying this, but there are other controversial lines in Toronto that fit your argument...

 

[scarberiankhatru]

The bitter folks are the "subway to nowhere, underused waste of money, should have been Eglinton, etc." crowd. This crowd is exactly equivalent to someone who opens a door halfway, cannot fit through it, and then complains that the door is broken instead of opening it further.

 

[Dan416]

The bitter folks are the "subway to nowhere, underused waste of money, should have been Eglinton, etc." crowd. This crowd is exactly equivalent to someone who opens a door halfway, cannot fit through it, and then complains that the door is broken instead of opening it further.

Well, personally I would have preferred an Eglinton line over a Sheppard line. But we should finish what we started! Finish the Danforth line to STC, and finish Sheppard to STC. And then subway building in Scarborough would be finished, in my humble opinion, for at least 50 years. Do the DRL, and subway building downtown will be done for 50 years. Extend Bloor to MCC and subway building in Mississauga will be done for 50 years (and then it'll be time for a Hurontario subway).

 

[Le Gique]

The bitter folks are the "subway to nowhere, underused waste of money, should have been Eglinton, etc." crowd. This crowd is exactly equivalent to someone who opens a door halfway, cannot fit through it, and then complains that the door is broken instead of opening it further.

and we'll just keep kicking 'em in the bum until they get it, these half-wit clods? is that the most attractive rallying point of the better-transit-for-toronto game plan?

where's the consideration that this purported crowd would include other earnest transit advocates who might be more useful as allies in the larger picture (-window)?

 

[DENTROBATE54]

The bitter folks are the "subway to nowhere, underused waste of money, should have been Eglinton, etc." crowd. This crowd is exactly equivalent to someone who opens a door halfway, cannot fit through it, and then complains that the door is broken instead of opening it further.

Wow, tell us how you really feel! That's a very shallow, uninformed, generalizing remark that makes the assertion that only the will of corporations/politicians matter, not the concerns of actual real people that daily commute along several routes. These transit riders know which corridors are the ones that work best for their needs (should be upgraded to LRT/subway) and those that don't (designed with the intent to 'create' density where naturally there'd otherwise be none).

Everyone wants a subway, but not everywhere deserves one. With prioritizing by actual demand instead of imagined ones, there'd be a second east-west line in downtown Toronto and the Eglinton Line to Pearson by now.

 

[Long Island Mike]

Can thru trains to the Yonge line be operated?

Everyone: This topic got me to thinking-along with a posted YouTube look at the Sheppard Line-Can thru trains operate to the Yonge line? Can the track connections allow this? I have never actually seen a trackmap of this line and how it connects with the Yonge Street Subway. One way to boost ridership would be to operate thru trains-I feel that closing this line would be a bad move. Other projects-like a Eglinton or Queen Street Subway should perhaps have gotten priority but since the Sheppard line is in operation lets keep it going so those using it can benefit. My two cents here-LI MIKE

 

[rpgr]

I might as well put a target on my back by saying this, but there are other controversial lines in Toronto that fit your argument...

There are always going to be controversy over any line. People are inherently greedy, myself included. People want the best they can get without paying for it or having someone else "foot the bill" so to speak. So all you've done is speak the obvious.

The Shepperd line I think was well thought out in theory. For it's potential to move people, it's great. Where it fails IMO is the fact that Torontonians have to foot the bill for something a great number of 905ers use (like those in York, Thronhill, Markham).

Here are the cold hard facts. There needs to be a system in the outlying areas to much more easily move people in and out of Toronto which is a center of, well, "money".

The best way to save road space is to put it along the north edge as the middle is already served by the Bloor line. IMO the 3 choices were Steeles, Finch and Shepperd. Due to some political stringing it was dumped onto Shepperd for a few reasons, not the least of which was the amalgamation of Toronto (needed to prove that something could be done for the newly integrated 'burbs).

 

[rpgr]

I should also make a small note here. I've realized that students (high school and U) make up a huge portion of the TTC ridership. This March Break I am finding I can easily get a seat with no hassle.

 

[andomano]

I should also make a small note here. I've realized that students (high school and U) make up a huge portion of the TTC ridership. This March Break I am finding I can easily get a seat with no hassle.

Well there are 102,750 less people using the system, which should empty one or two seats on your bus.
You should look at this spacing article
http://spacing.ca/wire/?p=2855

http://www12.statcan.ca/english/census06/data/topics/RetrieveProductTable.cfm?Temporal=2006&APATH=3&PID=90657&THEME=76&PTYPE=88971&VID=0&GK=NA&GC=99&FL=0&RL=0&FREE=0&METH=0&S=1&GID=838003

 

[junctionist]

I should also make a small note here. I've realized that students (high school and U) make up a huge portion of the TTC ridership. This March Break I am finding I can easily get a seat with no hassle.

It's not March Break for U of T students unfortunately.

However, you can bet that a lot of people in general are taking time off to spend with their younger children, whether going on a trip or staying in the city.

 

[DENTROBATE54]

It's not March Break for U of T students unfortunately.

However, you can bet that a lot of people in general are taking time off to spend with their younger children, whether going on a trip or staying in the city.

At least we got Reading Week off !

 

[Dan416]

As far as I know, the TTC DID prioritize, Sheppard was the busiest bus from what I have heard on these boards. It makes sense that the busiest bus would get the subway. Downtown is already served by streetcars. And the TTC doesn't seem interested in building subways downtown. Wherever you build a subway, it's going to be controversial. Nobody in the 416 wants a subway to VCC. Yet we're getting it. Everyone said you needed to build a DRL before expandding the Yonge line. Yet they're expanding the Yonge line. It's just politics that decides this, not real need.