Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)

[NIV]

There's no disagreeing w/that; the point is that the EELRT, as currently designed is not the solution.

I agree, this LRT line needs to connect major hubs in Scarborough. I’m also not a fan of the routes drawn, they shouldn’t even call it the Eglinton east LRT extension because it’s not an extension of that line.

 

[asher__jo]

LRTs are basically buses. That’s why Hamilton, Mississauga, Waterloo, finch are building them. All places with no vision.

Right, that’s what Calgary and Edmonton are doing LRT. How LRT is implemented has a lot to do with service capacity, but finch LRT will potentially be far more reliable than bus.

 

[Rainforest]

For reasons well discussed, I oppose the EELRT entirely.

In brief, the analysis indicates it will perform no better in travel time than the current bus service. There is absolutely a need for better transit to UTSC and other parts of eastern Scarborough, but we need to go
back to the drawing board and revisit what that looks like in this case.

I'm not disputing your opinion, as it is based on the published studies. Just curious, how does the Eg East route differ from Finch West, or from other corridors where street-median LRTs have been proposed: Sheppard E, Don Mills, Jane.

Apparently, dedicated bus lanes (not even in street median, just curbside) make an improvement almost equivalent to the more costly LRT in case of Eg East. But Finch West needs LRT, not bus lanes.

Is it the future demand forecast? Say, Finch will have too much demand for buses, Eg East won't have as much. Or, the street geometry (easier to set curbside bus lanes on Eg East)?

 

[Rainforest]

And, a bit of conspiracy: is it possible that the latest Eg East report is skewed against the LRT? Let's say, the City staff knows that there is no chance to fund Eg East LRT anytime soon, therefore they present it as less desirable to make it fall off the radar, at least temporarily?

 

[robmausser]

they shouldn’t even call it the Eglinton east LRT extension because it’s not an extension of that line.

Which is the worst part of the plan by far.

Hopefully a politician with some sense will intervene and fix that, much like changing Sheppard to a subway extension instead of the cockamamie plan to force riders onto an LRT midway.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Which is the worst part of the plan by far.

Hopefully a politician with some sense will intervene and fix that, much like changing Sheppard to a subway extension instead of the cockamamie plan to force riders onto an LRT midway.

For reasons well discussed, I oppose the EELRT entirely.

In brief, the analysis indicates it will perform no better in travel time than the current bus service. There is absolutely a need for better transit to UTSC and other parts of eastern Scarborough, but we need to go
back to the drawing board and revisit what that looks like in this case.

And, a bit of conspiracy: is it possible that the latest Eg East report is skewed against the LRT? Let's say, the City staff knows that there is no chance to fund Eg East LRT anytime soon, therefore they present it as less desirable to make it fall off the radar, at least temporarily?

EELRT just needs grade separation. The truth of the EELRT is that MX screwed up the tunnel with the subway blocking it sure, but the TTC had no intention of running a line from Pearson to UTSC, if they did even the current setup would be fine. Either grade separation (no mid-block stops) or make it a streetcar.

 

[Northern Light]

Either grade separation (no mid-block stops) or make it a streetcar.

Last thing first, there is no sense to a 'streetcar' here, as in mixed traffic.

To what purpose?

****

In terms of grade separation to get the cost down to 4 Billiion and change the current design nixed the one full grade separation in the plan, at the Kingston/Morningside intersection.

Other than scrapping the concept out right, full grade separation would be mean tunneled stations at every intersection. That would more than double the budget.

Again, there is a need for better rapid transit in eastern Scarborough, the current concept is not that answer; nor do I think the political will is there to stick to the current route at double or triple the cost; and it probably shouldn't be either.

We need to separate out the idea of better transit on Eglinton East/Kingston Road from better transit to UTSC and/or Malvern. I don't think they are or should be the same project.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Last thing first, there is no sense to a 'streetcar' here, as in mixed traffic.

To what purpose?

****

In terms of grade separation to get the cost down to 4 Billiion and change the current design nixed the one full grade separation in the plan, at the Kingston/Morningside intersection.

Other than scrapping the concept out right, full grade separation would be mean tunneled stations at every intersection. That would more than double the budget.

Again, there is a need for better rapid transit in eastern Scarborough, the current concept is not that answer; nor do I think the political will is there to stick to the current route at double or triple the cost; and it probably shouldn't be either.

We need to separate out the idea of better transit on Eglinton East/Kingston Road from better transit to UTSC and/or Malvern. I don't think they are or should be the same project.

I think just because ending at Kennedy is just such a cop out for me - that was the original complaint and this project just creates one. Regarding Malvern vs Kingston Road, I think they have been combined because there is a legitimate concern rapid transit may never get past McCowan because of the subway. For me, the EELRT concept addresses this. Otherwise, I agree. I think connecting Kennedy to Pickering Town Centre would bring more riders, but that's far off in the future...

 

[crs1026]

Maybe a subway extension to UTM for those privileged westenders.

Hey, let's not get into that kind of thing.

West Enders were content with an LRT but a certain doofus resident made the decision. We will gladly send him to live in Scarborough if people out there want him.

Why does any discussion of transit in Scarborough devolve into bad arguments and mud slinging? Scarberians have the Line 2 extension and likely the Sheppard line extension, so they have been shown the money. Now can we get back to the merits of what is needed most?

- Paul

 

[sixrings]

Hey, let's not get into that kind of thing.

West Enders were content with an LRT but a certain doofus resident made the decision. We will gladly send him to live in Scarborough if people out there want him.

Why does any discussion of transit in Scarborough devolve into bad arguments and mud slinging? Scarberians have the Line 2 extension and likely the Sheppard line extension, so they have been shown the money. Now can we get back to the merits of what is needed most?

- Paul

Please refrain from the term Scarberian. It is offensive and hurts peoples feelings. Also as a former resident I preferred Scarlem.

 

[NoahB]

Other than scrapping the concept out right, full grade separation would be mean tunneled stations at every intersection. That would more than double the budget.

Or, they can elevate it. The Surrey-Langley SkyTrain extension is costing 4 Billion for 16km of rail and 8 stations. Build it compact and simple like the Canada Line or the original plan for the REM East.

Let's say each elevated station costs 150 million to build; adding 10 more stations to the Skytrain would cost 5.5 Billion. (It cost 52 million to build an infill station for the Canada line by the way)

The EELRT is planned to be 18km and 27 stations. Reduce the stations to 18 and build them elevated and simple; the price should be under 6-7B including the yard and OMSF.

 

[dowlingm]

EELRT just needs grade separation. The truth of the EELRT is that MX screwed up the tunnel with the subway blocking it sure, but the TTC had no intention of running a line from Pearson to UTSC, if they did even the current setup would be fine. Either grade separation (no mid-block stops) or make it a streetcar.

I would argue the person who “screwed up” is the one who pointed the Bloor Danforth line station and tail tracks east rather than north east. Where else could Metrolinx’ tunnel be positioned other than beyond those?

the transportation landscape in the S-word will be quite different from when EELRT was modelled, with more service on the Stouffville line, the Line 2 extension, even the SRT busway. It may make more sense to route an LRT along Lawrence, and keep going to Don Mills and meet an extended Ontario line, but if Sheppard extension gets shovels in the ground and with service ramp up on LSE, S-worders south of 401 will find a case for rail harder when frequent buses are heading for two subway lines and two frequent service GO lines

 

[Northern Light]

Or, they can elevate it. The Surrey-Langley SkyTrain extension is costing 4 Billion for 16km of rail and 8 stations. Build it compact and simple like the Canada Line or the original plan for the REM East.

Let's say each elevated station costs 150 million to build; adding 10 more stations to the Skytrain would cost 5.5 Billion. (It cost 52 million to build an infill station for the Canada line by the way)

The EELRT is planned to be 18km and 27 stations. Reduce the stations to 18 and build them elevated and simple; the price should be under 6-7B including the yard and OMSF.

Again, this is to say cancel the current project; that change is not a tweak; its a complete re-think.

It would be more expensive than you think; if only because of the bridge over Highland Creek, and the tunnel out of Kennedy..........but I digress.

It doesn't fundamentally address the problem of a poor route.

There are so many projects for which a better case can be made from Milton GO to Line 2 west to 'East Mall'; to Sheppard, to Eglinton West to Pearson.....

I just don't see this as a priority at all. There is, again, a need to serve this market; but I just think the concept doesn't pass muster and the idea should be shelved until we have something more worthwhile to evaluate.

 

[lead82]

I’m talking about looking at Scarborough 10-20 years down the road when these systems might come into operation if we’re lucky. . Scarborough’s population is exploding just like the rest of the GTA. Dedicated bus lanes might work now but are not a long term solution for an expanding Scarborough

Scarborough’s population is actually on the decline. Most of Toronto is declining except for the areas with highest development like downtown, mid town and the Etobicoke Mimico waterfront and the Kipling area.

Most of northerner Scarborough is suffering from lack of any development and a suburban population whose kids have left the nest and where there are many retirees.

 

[adys123]

The changing transportation landscape actually helps with EELRT's case significantly. While Initially conceived as a way to get people coming from the west to UTSC, it actually serves a far more strategic purpose now. The UTSC route for those coming from the west is more comfortably served by Line 2, and DSBRT.