Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)

[T3G]

I'd cancel all LRT projects in favour of redirecting those funds to either: Longer Sheppard extensions or Ontario Line extensions or a midtown GO line.

I think we need to move our focus away from LRT's (except where it is low hanging fruit, like upgrading streetcar ROW's) and towards higher-order investments.

And in doing so, you'd aggressively limit the number of places which will get new transit projects.

 

[Sunnyside]

Does that figure for Finch include 30 years of maintenance and operations?

I was also not aware that transit vehicles in their own lanes are burdened by traffic.

But regarding this thread, in the decades that politicians have been pandering with Sheppard Subway promises, has there ever been any kind of study or analysis that indicates ridership will require a subway?

I know someone said that the original Sheppard subway was important for relieving the number of buses using Sheppard to get to Yonge. I’m sure the full line (Sheppard W to STC) would have had ridership figures to justify it, but the stub line we got was probably the most ridership-dense section, at least in terms of generating new riders.

 

[cplchanb]

The problem with this is that subway construction in Toronto is even more expensive than LRT construction so a policy of all or nothing on Subways is a policy of "Pay More, Get Less". It's not LRT construction costs that need to be brought down, its subway construction costs that have to come down. We have been fighting this battle since the 70's when the Etobicoke and Scarborough RT's were planned as LRT's because the cost of subway construction was ballooning out of control even back than. It's also what spurred the province to invest in the ICTS trains back in the day because they saw the growing need for transit in Ontario but didn't want to foot the bill for expensive subways; and now the Ontario Line is a light-metro and not a heavy-metro for the same reason.

this is what happens when there is no transit development for a generation and all of a sudden there is a boom. we have no expertise, no competition and no infrastructure do these big projects so they can charge the skys the limit pricing leaving everyone with a pikachu meme. blame all the unions and corruption all you want for the high costs but at some point there needs to be a reflection that our parents caused this back in the 70s when they first started sitting on their laurels instead of planning for the future.

 

[Voltz]

I know someone said that the original Sheppard subway was important for relieving the number of buses using Sheppard to get to Yonge. I’m sure the full line (Sheppard W to STC) would have had ridership figures to justify it, but the stub line we got was probably the most ridership-dense section, at least in terms of generating new riders.

If there has ever been a ridership projection for the Sheppard Subway that justifies a Subway on Sheppard, I would for sure have seen it, and the subway supporters would have been beating us across the head with it every chance they got.

 

[afransen]

this is what happens when there is no transit development for a generation and all of a sudden there is a boom. we have no expertise, no competition and no infrastructure do these big projects so they can charge the skys the limit pricing leaving everyone with a pikachu meme. blame all the unions and corruption all you want for the high costs but at some point there needs to be a reflection that our parents caused this back in the 70s when they first started sitting on their laurels instead of planning for the future.

The product is not really the transit lines themselves, but the organization that can deliver them on an ongoing basis, effectively, on time and on budget.

 

[cplchanb]

The product is not really the transit lines themselves, but the organization that can deliver them on an ongoing basis, effectively, on time and on budget.

same thing. if theres no development theres no incentive to hire the good people especially the construction managers. Wont be surprised if the managers on the winning bid teams arent exactly the cream of the crop, the ones who know how to build properly and effectively.

 

[Bojaxs]

And in doing so, you'd aggressively limit the number of places which will get new transit projects.

Quality > Quantity

 

[T3G]

Quality > Quantity

Easy to say that if you're on the receiving end of transit.

To someone in a transit desert, who's seeing certain neighbourhoods of Toronto get subways, even though trams would be sufficient, all because we don't know how to do trams properly, they might call it being greedy.

 

[Bojaxs]

Easy to say that if you're on the receiving end of transit.

To someone in a transit desert, who's seeing certain neighbourhoods of Toronto get subways, even though trams would be sufficient, all because we don't know how to do trams properly, they might call it being greedy.

Subways will eventually find their way to transit deserts. It'll just take longer versus street level trams. But I think it's worth the extra time and money.

 

[T3G]

Personally, I would rather we have 100 LRTs in the city rather than subways, if it meant that the money saved by building the subway could go to developing BRT networks, or even just increasing the service frequencies, in smaller towns with poorer transit. This is letting perfect be the enemy of good.

But the idiots running the TTC streetcar network and their obsession with rules at the expense of service quality have utterly poisoned the well and rendered this idea unthinkable.

 

[toronto647]

If I were Premier, these would be my next top priority projects in this order:

1. Line 4 East Extension to McCowan and Sheppard
2. Line 4 West Extension to Downsview Park Stn
3. Line 5 Extension to the Airport
4. Hurontario LRT Extension to Brampton GO Station

Anyone have any thoughts? I figured, this is a transit forum, so might as well have some fun with it and I'm curious to know what you guys think.

I also hope one day that we see a Line 2 Extension to Sherway. Though, in this political landscape, I doubt we will ever see this.

Ontario Line North will also be a major priority in the next election cycle till at least Fairview Mall if not till Seneca College. If Sheppard is being extended then Yonge Line will get even more traffic hence Ontario Line will need to get to Fairview to divert people from going till Yonge.

1. Line 4 East Extension to McCowan and Sheppard
2. Line 4 West Extension to Downsview Park Stn
3. Line 5 Extension to the Airport
4. Hurontario LRT Extension to Brampton GO Station
5. Ontario Line North till Fairview minimum if not Seneca College

These 5 are a lock for the next election cycle imo

 

[NIV]

Sheppard west should be priority one imo, Yonge line is already the busiest in the system and now they are extending North. Making the connection to the Spadina line will relieve pressure and bridge this northern transit gap, especially with the Finch LRT coming on line. Finishing the Sheppard subway east before this is done will only increase the burden on the Yonge line.

 

[Railrunner]

The Line 4 extensions should be done in phases. Phase 1 Sheppard West extension, linking Sheppard West to Sheppard-Yonge, approximately 3km. Phase 1 would be much simpler to implement due to this small distance. Phase 2 would be the East extension, which would require more significant consultation and planning but should absolutely be built.

 

[sixrings]

Quality > Quantity

Subways or nothing. LRTs are just street cars.

 

[sixrings]

Subways or nothing. LRTs are just street cars.

People of Scarborough. Downtown elites have the best transit at their fingertips. Streetcars everywhere!!! Also people of Scarborough.… Oh wait you want to build a LRT here because it’s cost effective and can be made into a network? Isn’t that just a streetcar? Keep your trash!!!!