Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)

[kEiThZ]

What's cheaper? Elevating Sheppard the whole way or simply converting the subway to LRT? And this has to be studied all the way till the zoo. The last proposal to terminate at Morningside is boneheaded.

 

[WislaHD]

What's cheaper? Elevating Sheppard the whole way or simply converting the subway to LRT? And this has to be studied all the way till the zoo. The last proposal to terminate at Morningside is boneheaded.

Why? Ridership doesn't support terminating further east than Morningside. Bus service is more than adequate.

 

[APTA-2048]

What's cheaper? Elevating Sheppard the whole way or simply converting the subway to LRT? And this has to be studied all the way till the zoo. The last proposal to terminate at Morningside is boneheaded.

Have you ever taken the bus past Morningside?

 

[TheTigerMaster]

What's cheaper? Elevating Sheppard the whole way or simply converting the subway to LRT? And this has to be studied all the way till the zoo. The last proposal to terminate at Morningside is boneheaded.

Have you ever taken a bus past Morningside? I mean, really, the zoo?

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Why? Ridership doesn't support terminating further east than Morningside. Bus service is more than adequate.

I wouldn't even take the subway east of McCowan.

 

[robmausser]

What's cheaper? Elevating Sheppard the whole way or simply converting the subway to LRT? And this has to be studied all the way till the zoo. The last proposal to terminate at Morningside is boneheaded.

You should never look at what is cheaper, but what adds the most value for your money.

What influence on ridership, speed, number of transfers (specifically the one at Don Mills) connections, beautification of the area etc does LRT vs Elevating the subway have?

You need to chart all this out with a cost to benefit ratio and compare the end net results.

Sure, horses with carts would be even cheaper than LRT, but its significantly worse.

 

[kEiThZ]

Why? Ridership doesn't support terminating further east than Morningside. Bus service is more than adequate.

This is the exact line of thinking that lost the fight on the Scarborough LRT. It's not always about ridership. Especially when we're talking an incremental extension of 3 km of LRT (or 4km till the zoo).

 

[kEiThZ]

I wouldn't even take the subway east of McCowan.

If it's a subway, it won't go east of McCowan. But if it's LRT, it's boneheaded to be running buses for 3 km of Sheppard....

 

[kEiThZ]

Have you ever taken a bus past Morningside? I mean, really, the zoo?

I live in Malvern. And yes, I've taken the Sheppard bus past Morningside. How's the buildform any different east of Morningside, than west of morningside? Compare Neilson-Morningside. And tell me how Morningside-Meadowvale is worse. Terminating at Morningside is as illogical as terminating the SLRT at Sheppard was.

Alternatively, we can keep Sheppard a subway, and just build bus lanes the rest of the way. And that's what will happen if LRT isn't done right....

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

What's cheaper? Elevating Sheppard the whole way or simply converting the subway to LRT? And this has to be studied all the way till the zoo. The last proposal to terminate at Morningside is boneheaded.

Why? Ridership doesn't support terminating further east than Morningside. Bus service is more than adequate.

Have you ever taken the bus past Morningside?

Have you ever taken a bus past Morningside? I mean, really, the zoo?

I wouldn't even take the subway east of McCowan.

This is the exact line of thinking that lost the fight on the Scarborough LRT. It's not always about ridership. Especially when we're talking an incremental extension of 3 km of LRT (or 4km till the zoo).

If it's a subway, it won't go east of McCowan. But if it's LRT, it's boneheaded to be running buses for 3 km of Sheppard....

I live in Malvern. And yes, I've taken the Sheppard bus past Morningside. How's the buildform any different east of Morningside, than west of morningside? Compare Neilson-Morningside. And tell me how Morningside-Meadowvale is worse. Terminating at Morningside is as illogical as terminating the SLRT at Sheppard was.

Alternatively, we can keep Sheppard a subway, and just build bus lanes the rest of the way. And that's what will happen if LRT isn't done right....

The original sheppard LRT plan went to Dean Park and Meadowvale Road.


The way I see it there are several options here:

Elevated Sheppard to STC and Scarborough to STC

Elevated Sheppard and Elevated Scarborough

Elevated Sheppard and Elevated Scarborough to McCowan and Sheppard. Create a new station there.

I think the subway should terminate at STC, just for convenience sake.

 

[kEiThZ]

The original sheppard LRT plan went to Dean Park and Meadowvale Road.

Something that seems to forgotten in these parts. The cut to Morningside came along with the SLRT cut to Sheppard/Progress. Both cuts made LRT less attractive. A converted Sheppard subway with LRT running till Dean Park (I'd say the extra 1km till the zoo) is a very attractive and sellable plan. Add in spurs for McCowan (till STC) and Malvern (up Neilson, or the Progress Hydro Corridor). Far more attractive than a subway.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Something that seems to forgotten in these parts. The cut to Morningside came along with the SLRT cut to Sheppard/Progress. Both cuts made LRT less attractive. A converted Sheppard subway with LRT running till Dean Park (I'd say the extra 1km till the zoo) is a very attractive and sellable plan. Add in spurs for McCowan (till STC) and Malvern (up Neilson, or the Progress Hydro Corridor). Far more attractive than a subway.

They should just complete the subway. It's over. Any talk of LRT will lead to the same battle we have had for 3 years.

 

[kEiThZ]

They should just complete the subway. It's over. Any talk of LRT will lead to the same battle we have had for 3 years.

I wouldn't worry about this so much. Eglinton Crosstown will be in service in 2021. People will have a good idea of what an LRT Crosstown will look like for the north.

Also, conversion of the subway will neuter the the argument that Scarborough is getting a second tier service.

 

[11th]

Regarding #4 I've read that more riders travel west from Scarborough to Fairview Mall than are travelling east from Fairview Mall to VP. The effect of extending the subway to VP is to inconvenience west bound travellers going to Fairview Mall with a transfer before they reach their destination. I agree with the long term vision to convert the Sheppard line to an LRT, that solves the transfer problem completely.

That's why if line 4 is extended (underground or elevated), it should at least go to Agincourt. It'll rid of many of those "one stop transfer" nonsense. I'm sure RER on Stouffville will be built way sooner than DRL. Those going to downtown from east of Kennedy will transfer onto Stouffville.

 

[Palma]

I think John Tory is quite serious about paying for transit. In comparison, with the previous 30 years of non action, this council and mayoral administration are quite focussed.

paying how?