Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)

[micheal_can]

The majority of people are going to be torn between 2a, and 2b. I do find it interesting though, that they chose to include a brimely/sheppard station over a station on birchmount.

Either of them can make sense. 2A has the advantage of putting to rest the arguments of changing the existing Sheppard line to an LRT or any other crazy ideas. 2B has the advantage of swooping down to catch key areas.

Just go with 2B. Of course this happened smh. Going out to morningside will force the Eglinton East LRT to Pickering Town Centre.

No LRT will expand over the city border. Bu, if either of #2 gets built, we may see it further extended to the PTC and Beyond.......

 

[T3G]

Just to be clear actually, the 30-50km/h operating speed means average speed right?

I would be surprised to find out that is the case, seeing as line 2 only has an average operating speed of 30 km/h. How could they possibly achieve an average speed of 50 km/h????

On the other hand, 30-50 km/h as an operating speed would be hilariously inadequate and would torpedo essentially all the arguments for building the subway at all. Sounds like someone at Metrolinx bungled something.

 

[nfitz]

Haven't you heard? We are no longer a hick town! We still have our mall carpet, but look out... Bougie and upscale 'shops' here we come!

Perhaps things have changed in the years since I posted that. Do they have a usable website for staff reports?

 

[ARG1]

I would be surprised to find out that is the case, seeing as line 2 only has an average operating speed of 30 km/h. How could they possibly achieve an average speed of 50 km/h????

On the other hand, 30-50 km/h as an operating speed would be hilariously inadequate and would torpedo essentially all the arguments for building the subway at all. Sounds like someone at Metrolinx bungled something.

Its worth noting that the stop spacing here is much wider than Line 2. Line 2 has stations every 660m or so, this is between 600m and 2km in a few places. What this seems like to me is average speeds in different segments (so 30km/h between Don Mills and VP, 50km/h between SY and SW)

 

[Steve X]

I would be surprised to find out that is the case, seeing as line 2 only has an average operating speed of 30 km/h. How could they possibly achieve an average speed of 50 km/h????

On the other hand, 30-50 km/h as an operating speed would be hilariously inadequate and would torpedo essentially all the arguments for building the subway at all. Sounds like someone at Metrolinx bungled something.

Don Mills to McCowan with 6 proposed stations with a length of 7.2km could potentially reach 50km/h avg if they can get top speed to 80 km/h.

The same distance through downtown portion of Line 2 would cover 12 stations. That's a lot more deacceleration and dwelling.

 

[Northern Light]

I would be surprised to find out that is the case, seeing as line 2 only has an average operating speed of 30 km/h. How could they possibly achieve an average speed of 50 km/h????

On the other hand, 30-50 km/h as an operating speed would be hilariously inadequate and would torpedo essentially all the arguments for building the subway at all. Sounds like someone at Metrolinx bungled something.

Uhh, the average operating speed of Line 2 is 32km/ph

When you hear that, you're not hearing the peak speed between stations, your hearing the distance the train travels in one hour.

So in the context of Line 4, McCowan to Sheppard West Station is just over 17km.

If you had an average operating speed of 34km/ph you would get from end of the line to the other in 30M.

***

To add a real world example, when I take Line 2 from Main to Yonge, the average travel time is 16M.

That covers a distance of ~7km, that's an (average) operating speed of ~27km/ph

 

[Northern Light]

Elevated!

edit to add: if they're planning to possibly have two subway lines meet so deep in suburbia, they better upzone the hell out of Sheppard-McCowan.

See this thread:

4630 Sheppard Avenue East ( Canadian Tire, ?, ?)

Not surprisingly, CT have registered to lobby in respect of the 'Official Plan Status' of their property opposite the new terminal station of the SSE at McCowan and Sheppard. Streetview: Aerial Pic: Site size is ~ 4ha/10 acres * That number includes the entire shaded area above; worth...

urbantoronto.ca

 

[T3G]

Uhh, the average operating speed of Line is 32km/ph

When you hear that, you're not hearing the peak speed between stations, your hearing the distance the train travels in one hour.

So in the context of Line 4, McCowan to Sheppard West Station is just over 17km.

If you had an average operating speed of 34km/ph you would get from end of the line to the other in 30M.

I realize that, but my point is that there are few locations on line 2 where the trains only operate at 32 km/h. I was referring to operating speed, not average speed.

In that context, 30-50 km/h, as quoted in the present document, parts of that range seem far too high as an average speed for a subway line, and far too low for an operating speed.

 

[ARG1]

Also the other question this whole document raises is where exactly are they putting the station at Kennedy?

Kennedy to Agincourt GO is 300m, meanwhile a full length subway platform is 150m. I really hope they don't just plop the station east of Kennedy, and require people to walk 150m to reach Agincourt.

A station at Agincourt meanwhile would allow for far better transfers, and I don't think diverting the Kennedy busses 300m east to reach it would be the end of the world. The only big issue I see is no direct subway connection to Agincourt Mall, but I think a direct connection to the Stouffville Line should be a higher priority.

 

[T3G]

Its worth noting that the stop spacing here is much wider than Line 2. Line 2 has stations every 660m or so, this is between 600m and 2km in a few places. What this seems like to me is average speeds in different segments (so 30km/h between Don Mills and VP, 50km/h between SY and SW)

Hmm, maybe you're onto something, actually. I just crunched some numbers and the section of Line 1 between Finch and Eglinton (chosen for its stop spacing which about corresponds with the proposed stop spacing on the Sheppard extension) apparently has an average speed of 39 km/h (8.49 km distance, 13 minute travel time as per Google Maps).

However, that doesn't account for how trains could get up to average speeds as quick as 50???? Even the NYC expresses don't seem to post average speeds that high. (I checked the Lexington Avenue express from 14th Street to Grand Central, and from Grand Central to 125th Street, both of which are extremely speedy segments; both calculations posted average speeds of 32-33 km/h).

 

[Rainforest]

^ I think, 50 kph average speed is out of question.

On the other hand, 40 kph (or perhaps 41-42 kph) might be possible for a wide stop spacing.

 

[micheal_can]

Also the other question this whole document raises is where exactly are they putting the station at Kennedy?

Kennedy to Agincourt GO is 300m, meanwhile a full length subway platform is 150m. I really hope they don't just plop the station east of Kennedy, and require people to walk 150m to reach Agincourt.

A station at Agincourt meanwhile would allow for far better transfers, and I don't think diverting the Kennedy busses 300m east to reach it would be the end of the world. The only big issue I see is no direct subway connection to Agincourt Mall, but I think a direct connection to the Stouffville Line should be a higher priority.

Couldn't they extend the GO station and platforms closer to the bridge? Then it is just a matter of going up.

 

[T3G]

Couldn't they extend the GO station and platforms closer to the bridge? Then it is just a matter of going up.

No, because the walk from Kennedy and Sheppard to the rail corridor alone is 415 m.

 

[Northern Light]

^ I think, 50 kph average speed is out of question.

On the other hand, 40 kph (or perhaps 41-42 kph) might be possible for a wide stop spacing.

The longest distance between stops in most options is Yonge to Bathurst which is ~2.4km, in option 2B (Scarborough Town Centre), the distance between Kennedy/Stouffville GO and STC is ~4km, but with curves that would impact speed.

 

[micheal_can]

No, because the walk from Kennedy and Sheppard to the rail corridor alone is 415 m.

View attachment 573342

Have the west end of the subway platform end directly under the intersection. Have the portals for the west end come up at the corner. Have the east end come up at the end of the GO platform. So,with the platform and the walkway, it should not be too bad of a walk.