Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)

[denfromoakvillemilton]

fear. funny that a liberal majority scares me way more.

This is the sheppard subway thread and he didn't promise that today...

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I suggest you look back in time to the last time the PCs were in power.

Mike Harris did exactly what he said he was going to do. Maybe you need to start pointing the finger at your greedy neighbors who can never think beyond this or that tax cut.

 

[Voltz]

Yes, that's perhaps the most likely scenario. Or to Don Mills ... they wouldn't have to do massive work to completely grade-separate Leslie ... worst-came-to-worse a couple of fly-overs. Don Mills road itself is already planned to be underground.

Still, I don't know how that fit's into Hudak's promise to not spend on transit until the budget is balanced. The current tunnelling contracts are only $497 million total. The contract that's to be awarded late 2014 or early 2015 is the biggie, to build the stations, the track, the electrical system, and the yard, and the surface section and is expected to be about $4.5 billion. Cancelling the 5.5 km piece of surface track from the portal east of Don Mills, to the portal west of Kennedy would save only about $300 million. Cancelling the station and tunnel into Kennedy is no more than $200 million. So even if Hudak shortens it, they are looking at about a $4 billion contract. I can't see them awarding this.

Which means they are just going to 'defer' the line east of Don Mills, and build nothing else.

 

[nfitz]

Which means they are just going to 'defer' the line east of Don Mills, and build nothing else.

I'd think they'd defer the entire project, as promised, until the budget is balanced and taxes are cut.

He was pretty clear today. Toronto get's one big project. An east-west express subway line south of Bloor, to relieve Yonge Line ... east towards Pape, west towards Etobicoke, linking to the Bloor line. He referred to the preliminary work, so it's pretty clear he's talking about the Downtown Relief Line.

With $4.5 billion about to be awarded for the Eglinton Line, then Hudak seems pretty clear that it's the Downtown Relief line that's going to be built instead of Eglinton.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I'd think they'd defer the entire project, as promised, until the budget is balanced and taxes are cut.

He was pretty clear today. Toronto get's one big project. An east-west express subway line south of Bloor, to relieve Yonge Line ... east towards Pape, west towards Etobicoke, linking to the Bloor line. He referred to the preliminary work, so it's pretty clear he's talking about the Downtown Relief Line.

With $4.5 billion about to be awarded for the Eglinton Line, then Hudak seems pretty clear that it's the Downtown Relief line that's going to be built instead of Eglinton.

Hell get destroyed for not building Eglinton imo. He wants to complete sheppard somehow but not Eglinton. Would that not be stupid?

 

[nfitz]

Hell get destroyed for not building Eglinton imo. He wants to complete sheppard somehow but not Eglinton. Would that not be stupid?

I doubt it would sway the electorate much one way or another. Harris didn't get much grief from the electorate for his promise to cancel Eglinton.

When has Hudak promised to complete Sheppard?

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I doubt it would sway the electorate much one way or another. Harris didn't get much grief from the electorate for his promise to cancel Eglinton.

When has Hudak promised to complete Sheppard?

In the white paper on his website. He also wants to extend Bloor Danforth to Mississauga.

We support a full, effective subway system for
Scarborough – including the Bloor-Danforth extension,
burying the Eglinton Crosstown as much as possible and
extending the Sheppard subway stump to Scarborough
City Centre. We don’t believe in first-rate transit for
some and second-rate transit for others. People in
Scarborough are citizens of Toronto, and much of our
future job growth and business potential will come from
there. They deserve service that is as good as what
others are already getting.

Prioritize a new East-West Express Line, commonly known as a Downtown Relief Line, as
the most important new subway route, and the necessary building block for future subway
expansion east into Scarborough, north into Richmond Hill and west into Mississauga
http://ontariopc.com/files/cities-white-paper.pdf

 

[rbt]

In the white paper on his website. He also wants to extend Bloor Danforth to Mississauga.

Not quite; Holyday wants it. I doubt Hudak as a preference one way or another. An East Mall/West Mall extension through Etobicoke-LakeShore riding is something Holyday has been after for decades. Mississauga (Hazel) doesn't care for it.

More importantly, if Peter Milczyn manages to beat Holyday then it'll disappear pretty quickly if Conservatives win as a whole. Milczyn lost by about 4% of the vote last time but Liberal support has increased a smidgen since the byelection; it could be a really close battle for Holyday.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Not quite; Holyday wants it. I doubt Hudak as a preference one way or another. An East Mall/West Mall extension through Etobicoke-LakeShore riding is something Holyday has been after for decades. Mississauga (Hazel) doesn't care for it.

More importantly, if Peter Milczyn manages to beat Holyday then it'll disappear pretty quickly if Conservatives win as a whole. Milczyn lost by about 4% of the vote last time but Liberal support has increased a smidgen since the byelection; it could be a really close battle for Holyday.

That will cost only 700 million at most. But it should stop at Cloverdale. I don't see the point of going to Sherway anymore.

 

[BurlOak]

That will cost only 700 million at most. But it should stop at Cloverdale. I don't see the point of going to Sherway anymore.

Unless the owners of Sherway kick in some money. From the globe:

Two years ago, a group of developers struck an agreement with the City of Richmond and TransLink to pay for a new station to be built on the Canada Line at Capstan Way through a $7,800-per-condo-unit charge. That was the first of its kind for Canada. (No work has started on it yet, however.)
And, in one of the most unusual deals, the owners of the Coquitlam Centre shopping mall and the City of Coquitlam have jointly agreed to pay for a $28-million station along the new Evergreen Line that is under construction.

Maybe there is some truth to the concept that the private sector will help pay for a rapid transit system - not the whole thing, but $10M or $20M per station would still add up to something (maybe more for Sherway).

 

[WislaHD]

I don't think Sheppard East needs to be a subway and for one simple reason - the B-D line is being extended in Scarborough to Sheppard.

With that Scarborough subway extension, what Sheppard East needs to be is a feeder route to funnel passengers from northern Scarborough (and connecting bus routes) to the Yonge Line, the B-D line, and the future DRL at Don Mills. Extending Sheppard Subway past Don Mills is also shortsighted as it forces two transfers to those who want to transfer to the future DRL.

So with the new-found purpose of Sheppard East as a feeder route as opposed to a main route, there is only two forms of transportation technology that makes sense for the route. BRT and LRT. Both would maximize coverage, handle the ridership, and can be built quickly and (relatively in case of LRT) cheaply.

The far more logical Sheppard expansion would be Sheppard West, to Downsview. That would mean Sheppard is no longer a stub and actually has destinations besides Yonge and Fairview. (Yorkdale, downtown via Spadina, York University and Downsview) Expansion to Sheppard West would also make Sheppard East LRT even better.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Unless the owners of Sherway kick in some money. From the globe:



Maybe there is some truth to the concept that the private sector will help pay for a rapid transit system - not the whole thing, but $10M or $20M per station would still add up to something (maybe more for Sherway).

A little obvious that all the higher class businesses were avoiding ford. My concern is if we do a dip like that south of the East Mall, how do we bring it to square one? I would want to serve Cloverdale, Sherway and Square One all in one shot.

I don't think Sheppard East needs to be a subway and for one simple reason - the B-D line is being extended in Scarborough to Sheppard.

With that Scarborough subway extension, what Sheppard East needs to be is a feeder route to funnel passengers from northern Scarborough (and connecting bus routes) to the Yonge Line, the B-D line, and the future DRL at Don Mills. Extending Sheppard Subway past Don Mills is also shortsighted as it forces two transfers to those who want to transfer to the future DRL.

So with the new-found purpose of Sheppard East as a feeder route as opposed to a main route, there is only two forms of transportation technology that makes sense for the route. BRT and LRT. Both would handle the ridership, can be built quickly and (relatively in case of LRT) cheaply.

The far more logical Sheppard expansion would be Sheppard West, to Downsview. That would mean Sheppard is no longer a stub and actually has destinations besides Yonge and Fairview. (Yorkdale, downtown via Spadina, York University and Downsview) Expansion to Sheppard West would also make Sheppard East LRT even better.

I like this, but if you build the subway you can also drive people towards both the DRL and the Scarborough extension.

 

[BMO]

I like this, but if you build the subway you can also drive people towards both the DRL and the Scarborough extension.

This. If you're going to have the DRL, the B-D line, the Yonge line, the Spadina line ALL connecting at yonge, a cross-town sheppard subway would be quite a good piece of transit from a connectivity point of view. Having unnecessary disconnections between STC and Downsview just further isolates the line and condemns it to never gaining ridership.

 

[innsertnamehere]

a full buildout of the Sheppard subway looks good on a map, but the $3 billion from it could be used in much better ways in other locations. A full sheppard subway would get around 7,000 PPHD, which while not horrible, would by far the lowest ridership line especially given its singular line status. having unnecessary disconnections between STC and Downsview is an acceptable feature given how downsview is not a trip generator in any way and STC is barely anything more than a couple condos huddled around a mall, of which the only high demand corridor leading in and out would already be served by a subway.

Like it or not, not many people need a crosstown subway connection between STC and NYCC. its not a "missing connection" as not many people want to make that connection anyway. that $3 billion is much better spent elsewhere on other missing connections that require more immediate attention.

 

[ehlow]

a full buildout of the Sheppard subway looks good on a map, but the $3 billion from it could be used in much better ways in other locations. A full sheppard subway would get around 7,000 PPHD, which while not horrible, would by far the lowest ridership line especially given its singular line status. having unnecessary disconnections between STC and Downsview is an acceptable feature given how downsview is not a trip generator in any way and STC is barely anything more than a couple condos huddled around a mall, of which the only high demand corridor leading in and out would already be served by a subway.

Like it or not, not many people need a crosstown subway connection between STC and NYCC. its not a "missing connection" as not many people want to make that connection anyway. that $3 billion is much better spent elsewhere on other missing connections that require more immediate attention.

Yes let's actually build subways where there is demand for a change. And there are many places in Toronto where there is enough demand for a subway, ex. the DRL route.