Self-Driving Vehicles/Autonomous Vehicle Technology

[W. K. Lis]

Wonder how the situations where a passenger forget something (IE. smartphone, keys, etc.) in the self driving car, would be handled? Would they not be able to drive off if the smartphone or car fob is still in the vehicle without a human in it?

 

[TransitBart]

I dislike this idea entirely. I can see its utility. I just can't come to terms with not paying attention to the road.

 

[crs1026]

I dislike this idea entirely. I can see its utility. I just can't come to terms with not paying attention to the road.

I know what you mean. All the same - At least the car will be looking at the road *all the time*, versus the human driver that may be texting, conversing, drowsing off, or looking but not really seeing something important coming at them. I won't feel safe riding in a SDV, but I will be a lot more confident driving alongside SDV's than alongside my fellow humans.

- Paul

 

[W. K. Lis]

Wonder how they felt in the 1940's and 1950's when the first automatic transmission on motor vehicles started appearing?

 

[mdrejhon]

Wonder how the situations where a passenger forget something (IE. smartphone, keys, etc.) in the self driving car, would be handled? Would they not be able to drive off if the smartphone or car fob is still in the vehicle without a human in it?

Intelligence.

CCTV cameras in vehicle (important for unmanned ridehail vandalism insurance claims) -- connected to the car computer with recognition AI for forgotten devices. The person's phone will be contacted automatically with the image of the forgotten item from the in-car interior CCTV camera. People who pay for SDV services/ridehail/pickup/taxi/rental/etc will necessarily have included contact information, that the car can automatically use.

You've just been texted:
"ZipCar Bot: Did you forget this item from your car? Please reply if you did. <PHOTO:carinterior.jpg>"

"ZipCar Bot: You have not replied within 10 minutes. A car cleanup penalty charge of $25 has been charged to your account. This is due to car being diverted to CarMaid Cleaners before the next user. Please ensure you retrieved the items next time. CarMaid Cleaners Lost & Found is (800) 555-1212 at 123 Main Street to retrieve your item(s) within 7 days at no charge."

The same technology may potentially detect vandalism damage (e.g. intentional exacto knife on seat upholstery) and automatically flag for a human verification by CarMaid Cleaners (when the car drives itself to that designated cleaners/maintenance service) in order to verify damage & cross-reference with CCTV video, resulting in an automatic repair bill charge & a some form of penalty from being able to use the driverless ZipCars.

There's many forms it could take, but it will probably be triggered by some form of AI analyzing the interior camera footage and then automatically contacting:
-- the user (forgotten item)
-- the maintenance vendor (barf, vandalism, etc)
-- the police (violent fight between two backseat customers, who ignores AI warnings to stop fighting/playfighting/arguing/etc)

The interior cameras will probably end up being a necessity due to insurance companies, meaning if you want to legally opt-in your car to unattended ridehail, you're agreeing to enable live car-interior surveillance whenever you're not using the car. It's possible you may have to "Agree" to have all surveillance uploaded to the Cloud, for crowdsourced AI automatic recognition of in-car situations. More submissions by users, would surmise to improve the accuracy of the in-car AI recognizing specific in-car situations, such as lost items or fights between two passengers, without creating too many false alarms. And presumably, people who do not "Agree" to this Terms Of Service agreement -- would presumably not be legally insured to do so -- and will presumably not be allowed to profit off their SDV doing unmanned ridehails.

 

[ssiguy2]

It's interesting and maybe come popular for long distance travel like cruise control but the whole notion proceeds from a false assumption.........people don't like driving.

Most people enjoy the energy of driving and quick lane changes to pass that one car so they can gain an extra 3 seconds. People like pushing the boundaries of how fast they can drive and not get a ticket or successfully running that yellow light. Driving is fun and these autonomous vehicles turn that fun into the mindless and uninteresting voyage on an elevator.

 

[TransitBart]

Intelligence.
-- the police (violent fight between two backseat customers, who ignores AI warnings to stop fighting/playfighting/arguing/etc).

Having sex. Lordy. It's gonna be a charming new era.

 

[MisterF]

It's interesting and maybe come popular for long distance travel like cruise control but the whole notion proceeds from a false assumption.........people don't like driving.

Most people enjoy the energy of driving and quick lane changes to pass that one car so they can gain an extra 3 seconds. People like pushing the boundaries of how fast they can drive and not get a ticket or successfully running that yellow light. Driving is fun and these autonomous vehicles turn that fun into the mindless and uninteresting voyage on an elevator.

It has nothing to do with whether or not people like driving. It has everything to do with safety and cost. Autonomous cars are by all accounts much safer than a person behind the wheel. And road construction and maintenance will be cheaper when you don't have to design around bumbling human drivers. There will be a future when human driven cars are a memory, just like elevator operators. For people who want to push the boundaries, that's what race tracks are for. They could very well be big business.

People liked riding horses too and it was a basic skill for thousands of years. But hardly anyone does it in the 21st century.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I dislike this idea entirely. I can see its utility. I just can't come to terms with not paying attention to the road.

It's like being in a taxi. Without the annoying talking driver

 

[TheTigerMaster]

It's interesting and maybe come popular for long distance travel like cruise control but the whole notion proceeds from a false assumption.........people don't like driving.

Most people enjoy the energy of driving...

How much money are people willing to pay for the enjoyment of driving? Autonomous vehicles are expected to be significantly cheaper to own than traditional vehicles, and insurance rates for traditional vehicles are expected to skyrocket as a greater proportion of autonomous vehciles are on the road.

Furthermore, looking into the next generation, we're soon going to have a generation of young adults who've entered adulthood with autonomous vehicles. What will compel them to spend the time and money to get a drivers license in the first place? Licensing rates amongst this group have already been in a freefall, and that's without a single autonomous vehicle on the market. Many older people may continue to drive, but the youth probably won't learn how to drive in the first place.

 

[crs1026]

How much money are people willing to pay for the enjoyment of driving? Autonomous vehicles are expected to be significantly cheaper to own than traditional vehicles, and insurance rates for traditional vehicles are expected to skyrocket as a greater proportion of autonomous vehciles are on the road.

Furthermore, looking into the next generation, we're soon going to have a generation of young adults who've entered adulthood with autonomous vehicles. What will compel them to spend the time and money to get a drivers license in the first place? Licensing rates amongst this group have already been in a freefall, and that's without a single autonomous vehicle on the market. Many older people may continue to drive, but the youth probably won't learn how to drive in the first place.

It's possible that in future roads might be classified into "must be on auto" and "may be driven manually" just as air navigation is classified into VFR and instrument flight. This is especially likely if automation involves capital investment in the infrastructure so that cars and the roads communicate. It is one thing cost-wise to wire all the traffic signals in Toronto to interact with vehicles, it's another if the entire Trans Canada Highway had to be so equipped in one mega project. Similarly, the cars may be built with full manual, semi manual, and full auto levels, so that people manually driving the open road still have "oversight' from the car to reduce human error. Enforced automation makes sense on congested roads and at speed....but may not be worth it everywhere.

While Millenials do have a different lifestyle, many will tell you that driving is still a thrill. Being an older guy, I can attest to the joy of driving - in some circumstances. I don't need to drive on the Gardiner any more.

If I had any hair left, I'd roll down the windows and let the wind roll back my hair..... gee, what a great song lyric that would make.

- Paul

 

[TheTigerMaster]

It's possible that in future roads might be classified into "must be on auto" and "may be driven manually" just as air navigation is classified into VFR and instrument flight. This is especially likely if automation involves capital investment in the infrastructure so that cars and the roads communicate. It is one thing cost-wise to wire all the traffic signals in Toronto to interact with vehicles, it's another if the entire Trans Canada Highway had to be so equipped in one mega project. Similarly, the cars may be built with full manual, semi manual, and full auto levels, so that people manually driving the open road still have "oversight' from the car to reduce human error. Enforced automation makes sense on congested roads and at speed....but may not be worth it everywhere.

I see one or two approaches happening:

The horse and buggie approach: Manually driven cars are rapidly and nearly completely replaced (~99.99% replaced) by autonomous cars. Manuallly driven cars become so rare that it's not necessary to restrict their travels, much like horses in many jurisdictions.

The "save the children" approach: There'll be a time where 95% of the public is in autonomous vehicles. They'll be a string of accidents where one of the few manually driven vehicles on the road kill some children, or something similarly heartbreaking. Public gets angry, and manually driven cars get banned in certain areas, such as cities.

While Millenials do have a different lifestyle, many will tell you that driving is still a thrill. Being an older guy, I can attest to the joy of driving - in some circumstances. I don't need to drive on the Gardiner any more.

As a millennial, I agree. 90% of the time I don't really care to drive (driving in traffic is no fun), but once in a while, when the roads are empty, driving can be very enjoyable. I'd be sad to lose that ability.

However, I also recognize the substantial safety benefits of autonomous vehicles, which is why I would not be opposed to banning manually driven cars in built-up areas of cities (or some similar regulation). It pains me to see tens of thousands of people killed on our roads every year, and even more irreparably injured. I also recognize that until automous vehicles become widespread, there's nothing but luck preventing me from being one of the tens of thousands of car users per year to end up dead or in a hospital. If regulating manually driven cars is the key to eliminating these deaths and accidents, then so be it.

 

[gweed123]

It's interesting and maybe come popular for long distance travel like cruise control but the whole notion proceeds from a false assumption.........people don't like driving.

Most people enjoy the energy of driving and quick lane changes to pass that one car so they can gain an extra 3 seconds. People like pushing the boundaries of how fast they can drive and not get a ticket or successfully running that yellow light. Driving is fun and these autonomous vehicles turn that fun into the mindless and uninteresting voyage on an elevator.

People like riding horses too, but you don't see many of them on the highway.

It's possible that in future roads might be classified into "must be on auto" and "may be driven manually" just as air navigation is classified into VFR and instrument flight. This is especially likely if automation involves capital investment in the infrastructure so that cars and the roads communicate.

That's what I think will happen. Much like today we don't allow certain vehicle types on 400-series highways. I think it will start off with dedicated SDV lanes, and once nearly the entire vehicle fleet on the road is SDV, the highways will become SDV-only.

I honestly think in 30 years we'll look at human-driven cars the same way we look at horse and buggies today: good for the occasional pleasure ride, but not a serious mode of transportation (unless you're Amish).

 

[crs1026]

I also recognize that until automous vehicles become widespread, there's nothing but luck preventing me from being one of the tens of thousands of car users per year to end up dead or in a hospital. If regulating manually driven cars is the key to eliminating these deaths and accidents, then so be it.

Totally agree that enforced 100% automation is justifiable in cities and all but very low risk situations (frankly, the sooner we get the morons who think the city and the 400- highways are the "open road" into automated cars, the better). Even before the tragedy you envision, I can imagine auto insurers demanding total automation for that very reason, or refusing to cover people if they are driving in manual mode. I'm old enough to remember when seat belt use was viewed as "inconvenient" and "not really necessary, only if the cop is watching" .... some drivers still resist, but fewer people unbuckle when they get out of town any more. Kids' car seats are the same.

I can't see automation happening all at once...too many things about our roads to reengineer. So some period of mixed use will have to be contemplated. And every vehicle will need a manual mode for exceptional use. There will be plenty of back roads and unimproved trails....I can't imagine driving right to the door of friends' cottages automatically. You use the trail if it's dry, but if there is mud in the ruts, you improvise. And if the car hasn't been told that the nice clear grassy spot is the septic bed and cars can't park there.....

Having said that, there have been countries that switched from left hand drive to right hand drive. That must have been a carefully planned and orchestrated event - it can't happen gradually!

- Paul

 

[mdrejhon]

It's interesting and maybe come popular for long distance travel like cruise control but the whole notion proceeds from a false assumption.........people don't like driving.

Demand would rise/fall.

A pleasant country drive isn't the same thing as driving at 5:04pm in a multilane parking lot with a 1 hour traffic-related delay.

Ridehails could go up considerably, the more congestion there is, in a self-feedback loop, especially if carpool lanes become much more widespread. 407 is also much cheaper by carpool -- you can breeze from Hamilton to Markham in less than 1 hour at peak for just, say, $5 toll charge per person.

It can take in many forms. One possible form this could take is -- congestion is unplesant so you'd opt-in to pick up paying passengers (opt-in ridehail apps might be pre-installed by car manufacturers, to lower your monthly car bill, or get a cut of your ridehail income) so you can drive carpool lanes & use 407 cheaper. Get home faster, make driving more fun, make driving cheaper, despite having to drive passengers. This is often done under the table (I promise to pay your gas) in many countries, apps would just make this more popular, quicker nearby pickup of a vetted 4.5-star or 5-star rated passenger, easier to do, and efficient.

There's solo ridehails, and carpooled ridehails, which can straddle various gap between solo driving and a full size bus. If ridehail carpools show up in less than 5 minutes after pressing a button, the demand will definitely show up especially if time-estimating is very accurate (including accounting for complexities of picking up/dropping off people).

Whether it's a quick hop between Liberty Village and Queen's University, or a longer hop like Hamilton-Markham.

The pickup/dropoff delays could eventually become pretty accurate (yet quite optimized, only a few minutes longer than non-carpooled) in future trip time estimates. Google Maps successfully developed accurate time estimate even for complex stop-and-go routes because of cloud knowledge of previous GPS trips. It would be accurate even if people would be on the wrong side of a divided road, and apps can automatically tell people to walk one block to lock in a 50% carpool time/cost savings (to prevent car pool diversion away from straight line), including accurate estimating of the pedestrian's walking time (plus safety margin) including having to walk to intersections to get across a divided road. Undoubtedly, algorithms for optimized carpools (a straighter line with quick pickups/dropoffs) will get better and speed things up for everyone. If people can see a carpool will be faster than public transit, shorter walk than to a bus stop, and much cheaper than driving, and easy as pressing a button, the market can be there.