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saveoursubways (SOS)

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nfitz said:
The anti-LRT folks have hijacked every thread here on progress on the various LRT lines, continue to do so, and get indignant when one suggests they should take it elsewhere.

I'm not even particularly anti-subway; I'm just asking some questions to help clarify the thought process. Given that I've done such a good job in pushing them to the whole SOS position in the first place, I'd say my presence here (but not in the other group) is beneficial. And to object would be highly hypocritical given the complete lack of any attempt to deal with the thread highjacking in the LRT threads.

Surely that's exactly what I'm trying to do, by asking questions? How does asking questions stop people exressing their opinions? I'm not the one here trying to stop people express opinions!
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I don't recall seeing many opposition to the other TC lines beside Sheppard and Eglinton

Most of us agree that TC is a great initiative but the corridors chosen and the priorities are somewhat...controversial.

What about those corridors?

-Wilson/York Mills/Ellesmere

-Lawrence

-Islington

-Dufferin

I mean Morningside??? and Sheppard over Dufferin...
Open your eyes...
 
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If we could somehow piggy back the Sheppard W portion of the subway onto the SY-whatever subway extension I think we could realistically call for a Downsview/York/Steeles W to Agincourt line. We've established that we could get to roughly Agincourt using the SELRT money. The distance from Downsview to Yonge is what? another 4-6 km so that's another billion. Not an insignificant number but not exactly crazy considering that we are building a subway. The rest East of Agincourt could be BRT with plans already beginning for expansion to SCC.

I think we really need to key in on those East Scarborough to York U trips as well. IIRC there was a large ridership base making that trip.
 
kEiThZ said:
You give yourself too much credit.
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I'd have hoped it was clear I was saying that mostly in jest (though I think the poll I put up may well have had a bit of a catalyst on the timing).

kEiThZ said:
Now who are you to suggest that you know what's good for Scarborough when you probably set foot in it a handful of times a year (and probably get there by car)?
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Who are you to suggest how many times a year I set foot in Scarborough! While I don't go there every day, I live walking distance from Scarborough, so I tend to enter it by car, and transit, on a regular basis. Perhaps not north of Sheppard very often; but otherwise. And by both car and transit; personally I find the SRT a very convenient way to get to that part of the city if your destination is near the SRT ... quite competive with driving! And while my transit route to work doesn't go through Scarborough, two of the back-up routes I take do go through Scarbough, on the subway, SRT, and Ellesmere bus (which I thought would be obvious given the number of times I've trashed the design Ellesmere RT station here).

I think Scarborough transit is quite relevent to me; trust me, if you were debating Hamlilton transit ... I wouldn't be here!

I hadn't until now realised though, that Scarborough was the focus of the SOS ... I assumed you'd also be pushing the Yonge extension, the Eglinton line, the DRL, and the extension of the Bloor line to Missauga. Though what you do is entirely up to you!
 
paul said:
Nice density graph here:
http://urbantoronto.ca/showpost.php?p=186223&postcount=27
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Oh yes! I'd forgotten those. Malvern certainly sticks out ... and to believe this, the subway should be on Finch East not Sheppard! Perhaps if the LRT is on Sheppard, then there should be to take the subway up Victoria Park to Finch, and then along Finch to McCowan, and up McCowan ... to Markham? Just thinking out loud here ...

... my Queen west is just crying for something
 
Scarborough is the first of many battles yet to be fought. And you wouldn't think the SRT was so great if you had to take it every day during peak hours in the peak direction.
 
nfitz said:
Oh yes! I'd forgotten those. Malvern certainly sticks out ... and to believe this, the subway should be on Finch East not Sheppard! Perhaps if the LRT is on Sheppard, then there should be to take the subway up Victoria Park to Finch, and then along Finch to McCowan, and up McCowan ... to Markham? Just thinking out loud here ...
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Yep. Lastman certainly screwed up there. The subway should have been on Finch. But now we have to work with what we have. Sheppard East has to develop now that the subway is there. And the 416 needs a true rapid transit northern crosstown route (not one that takes 2 hrs to get across the top of the city).

There's no need for a subway into Markham. The increasingly dense pocket at Ellesmere and McCowan is a much better destination. Check out the vast blue space on the map north of Steeles. Goin there is almost as bad as building rapid transit to the zoo! Oh wait....
 
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nfitz said:
Oh yes! I'd forgotten those. Malvern certainly sticks out ... and to believe this, the subway should be on Finch East not Sheppard! Perhaps if the LRT is on Sheppard, then there should be to take the subway up Victoria Park to Finch, and then along Finch to McCowan, and up McCowan ... to Markham? Just thinking out loud here ...

... my Queen west is just crying for something
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Transit planning shouldn't be based solely population density... purely residential corridors are probably not the best choice for rapid transit. After all there are other factors as well, such as the density of jobs and retail. And then there is redevelopment potential. What is the development potential of Finch compared to Sheppard? What mode of transit better at realizing that potential, subway or LRT?

Judging solely from that map, you could say the Wilson Avenue is the worst choice possible for an LRT line in Toronto. But in reality, it is probably the best choice possible.
 
I would only support a pro-subway campaign as a way to balance out the other anti-subway and pro-LRT campaign. Otherwise, one is just a bad as the other. I'd rather be pro-transit instead of pro-subway or pro-LRT.
 
I would think that the goal for the group is simply to put out the message that there is an alternative and hopefully generate discussion among the public. Look at what's happened on the DRL. It's gone from being some pie in the sky dream for transit fans to a topic that's advocated for by mainstream newspapers. We don't have time on our side, but it does not hurt to try.
 
doady said:
Transit planning shouldn't be based solely population density... purely residential corridors are probably not the best choice for rapid transit. After all there are other factors as well, such as the density of jobs and retail.
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I was thinking the same thing. If you look at the employment density map posted in the same thread, the argument for a Sheppard subway becomes evident.

http://urbantoronto.ca/showpost.php?p=185526&postcount=11
 
Actually nfitz if you look at any of the SOS stuff I've put out I've stayed away from making it Scarborough specific at all. Scarborough is where the first battle(s) will be fought, but I say we extend ALL Toronto subway lines. We've been without subway expansion for 10 years. And that was just a stump on Sheppard. We've been without REAL subway growth for what, 40 years?

Bloor. Danforth. Yonge. Spadina. Sheppard. Those are all lines that need to be extended. i.e. ALL OF THEM. Plus new subway lines are needed (DRL and Eglinton). This city really needs to grow up and build them.

Kipling was built in 1981 I believe. That's almost thirty years as a terminus. And a million people live beyond Kipling in Peel Region! Kennedy has that ridiculous transfer, when we have an urban growth centre at Scarborough Centre without a subway!

And as keithz has pointed out, Sheppard and Danforth are servicing different destinations. People will take what gets them there FASTER. And Sheppard and Danforth meeting at Scarborough would bring even more development to that part of Scarborough, as well as Sheppard East.
 
Time to start a savethishobby group. This is getting way out of hand. I am with Doady, and Niftz. I am pro transit, not pro whatever mode I like.
 
Justin10000 said:
Time to start a savethishobby group. This is getting way out of hand. I am with Doady, and Niftz. I am pro transit, not pro whatever mode I like.
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Suit yourself. Nobody is saying you have to join the group. And nobody told you that you have to get on this thread and post useless comments. Troll elsewhere.
 
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