saveoursubways (SOS)

[DavidH]

We need to discuss/debate goals and strategy. Do we push for the whole Downsview to STC route and then hope for less (Don Mills to Agincourt) or do we present the compromise solution up front? The former presents the risk of being written off as dreamers. The latter runs the risk of achieving a further compromised solution.

We need to work this stuff out before the website and twitterfeed are populated.

Agreed completely on getting a strategy in place first.

We need to be realistic that dollars are limited, and that the proposal can't just be for the Sheppard corridor.

SRT is easy, although I think it's lower priority than a northern crosstown line. The minimal northern crosstown line would be Downview to Agincourt, I'd think.

 

[kEiThZ]

I think the SRT should be pushed for as well. That means a lot more to Scarborough residents and could make for a good halo boosting campaign.

 

[DavidH]

I think the SRT should be pushed for as well. That means a lot more to Scarborough residents and could make for a good halo boosting campaign.

It could also be pitched as Durham-friendly in that it would allow things like the DRT BRT to connect directly to the subway.

 

[Ansem]

We need to discuss/debate goals and strategy. Do we push for the whole Downsview to STC route and then hope for less (Don Mills to Agincourt) or do we present the compromise solution up front? The former presents the risk of being written off as dreamers. The latter runs the risk of achieving a further compromised solution.

We need to work this stuff out before the website and twitterfeed are populated.

I think Downsview to STC is the way to go. Even if most of them are pro-Miller, how many of them knows all the facts?

If we give them all the facts with the #1 being that Transit City is not rapid transit like it's being advertise but a faster streetcar, many of them will think that subway makes more chance espacially having all those transit hubs on the same route.

I think we should take this battle one front at a time. Advertising ourselves as anti-Transit city is counter productive since the idea is good but Sheppard and Eglinton should not have been picked.

1st Front: SELRT. Since construction is imminent, we have to focus there. Miller might be leaving but he will try to do everything possible to push this plan unless we can get massive support and media attention pointing out the flaws of Sheppard East. No taxpayer will stand for a billion dollar streetcar on Sheppard.

The best compromise is a 2 phase extension; first to Agincourt and then to STC

By proposing the compromise upfront, they might throw a bone like increasing the speed on the LRT but it still doesn't make this right.

Dufferin, wilson, Lawrence, Islington hould have gone ahead of Sheppard. We're not anti-transit City, we disagree with Sheppard being on that list and being push as a number 1 priority...even over the DRL...which could be our main argument to win some of them to our cause. The SELRT money should have went to DRL first

 

[kEiThZ]

I favour focusing on transfers @ Kennedy and Don Mills. This way the campaign can be targetted towards alleviating transfers for most Scarborough residents by pushing for subway extensions from Kennedy to STC and Don Mills to Agincourt. I would propose LRT for the rest of Sheppard East and on Progress from STC to Malvern (no grade separation required - a true TC line).

 

[LeonSKennedy]

I'd like to join, although I'm not sure how I could be of help. My background is in civil engineering/transportation planning.

 

[nfitz]

So your going to push to extend two subways into STC? Wouldn't that reduce the load on both, compared to if only one was extended?

 

[kEiThZ]

All we're pushing for is what was originally planned for Scarborough. And both subways serve different destinations. They are complimentary. They won't share the load. If you were heading downtown, why would you take Sheppard? And if you were heading to NYCC why would you take the BD line?

 

[kEiThZ]

I'd like to join, although I'm not sure how I could be of help. My background is in civil engineering/transportation planning.

Coruscanti Cognoscente is running the group. PM him for an invite.

 

[nfitz]

All we're pushing for is what was originally planned for Scarborough.

What about the rest of the city? Why should such a huge amount of money go to Scarborough? It seems that Scarborough is already over-represented to other areas in the funding spending ... and you want more??

My gosh, what a bunch of IMBY's!

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

nfitz:

Why do you want to stick your head into a thread where you don't really belong? There are plenty of other TC threads where you can express your opinion. Let others express theirs.

AoD

 

[nfitz]

The anti-LRT folks have hijacked every thread here on progress on the various LRT lines, continue to do so, and get indignant when one suggests they should take it elsewhere.

I'm not even particularly anti-subway; I'm just asking some questions to help clarify the thought process. Given that I've done such a good job in pushing them to the whole SOS position in the first place, I'd say my presence here (but not in the other group) is beneficial. And to object would be highly hypocritical given the complete lack of any attempt to deal with the thread highjacking in the LRT threads.

Let others express theirs.

Surely that's exactly what I'm trying to do, by asking questions? How does asking questions stop people exressing their opinions? I'm not the one here trying to stop people express opinions!

 

[kEiThZ]

What about the rest of the city? Why should such a huge amount of money go to Scarborough? It seems that Scarborough is already over-represented to other areas in the funding spending ... and you want more??

Scarborough is only over-represented because of Transit City. We don't need LRT on Morningside. Heck, even the residents of Morningside don't want LRT on Morningside. If the plan was simply to construct the two subway extensions and Eglinton as a subway extension, Scarborough would be under-represented.

Lastly, Scarborough is not a small place. It requires true rapid transit if we are to have any hope of getting drivers out of their cars. That requires subways. LRTs aren't going to attract significantly more ridership than what's on their respective bus routes today. I consider that a serious misemployment of tax dollars.

 

[nfitz]

Hmm, interesting. Is there good data somwhere on the populations in the various area? North York, East York, Scarborough, Old Toronto?

I'm of the opinion that these things should be driven by current and future densities; populations within 400-metres (or so) of nodes, etc. (which is why I was pushing for extending the Sheppard subway to Victoria Park).

Is there a good density map somewhere? The one in the old, I think it was, RTES study was quite interesting ... certainly gave a good indication of why the east leg of the DRL might work very well.

 

[kEiThZ]

Given that I've done such a good job in pushing them to the whole SOS position in the first place, I'd say my presence here (but not in the other group) is beneficial.

Sir,

You give yourself too much credit. We have nothing against you. It's the plan that we oppose. We've bandied about the idea in the past on how to oppose Transit City. After CC's abortive petition efforts, we decided to try something else. That's all.

This may go somewhere. Or it may not. I'll feel good knowing I did my best to stand up for my community and for what I believe is best for it.

Now who are you to suggest that you know what's good for Scarborough when you probably set foot in it a handful of times a year (and probably get there by car)?