News   Oct 31, 2024
 241     0 
News   Oct 31, 2024
 1.1K     3 
News   Oct 31, 2024
 551     0 

Saks Fifth Avenue Flagship (Queen & Yonge)

There's no support for a tower there, though perhaps it would have been smart planning though there was always an expectation for an additional apartment tower at Park Road for decades and that area was designed for it. Bramalea Ltd. went down and different parts of the complex were under numerous management companies over the years so nothing ever became of it until a developer bought the space for a condo in the late 90's at Park Road ("8 Park Road").
 
Isn't that right on top of the subway? Enough problems there without trying to add a tower (which would be pretty close to the other towers). No.
 
lol I can't imagine having another tower between the apartments and the office tower. The office tower is already close enough!

ri9jll.jpg
 
It would be nice to see another tower get built on top of the mall as part of the redevelopment, similar to what's being done at Yorkville Plaza and Holt Renfrew (50 Bloor West).

11196390883_588d9491b2_b.jpg

Note: original image by thecharioteer

Too many memories about a Sampoong Department Store collapse in Seocho-gu district of Seoul, South Korea back in 1995 for some. See link.

The Sampoong Group, a South Korean trade company began construction of the Sampoong Department Store in 1987 over a tract of land previously used as a landfill. Originally designed as a residential apartment with four floors, it was changed to a large department store during its construction by Lee Joon, the future chairman of the building. This involved cutting away a number of support columns in order to install escalators.[SUP][2][/SUP] When the original contractors refused to carry out these changes, Lee ignored their warnings and fired them, instead using his own building company to complete construction.

The building was completed in late 1989, and the Sampoong Department Store opened to the public on July 7, 1990, attracting an estimated 40,000 people per day during the building's five years of existence. The store consisted of north and south wings, connected by an atrium.

Later on, a fifth floor was added, which was first planned to be a skating rink to comply with zoning regulations that prevented the whole building from being used as a department store. Lee changed the original plan for the fifth floor to include eight restaurants instead. When a construction company tasked to complete the extension advised that the structure would not support another floor, they were fired, and another company was hired to complete the project. The restaurant floor also had a heated concrete base with hot water pipes going through it, as patrons sit on the floor of traditional Korean restaurants, which added a large extra load due to the increase in thickness of the concrete slab.

In addition, the building's air conditioning unit was installed on the roof, creating a load of four times the design limit. Two years before the collapse, the air conditioning units were moved across the delicate roof, which is where the cracking started. The units were moved over the column 5E from which the most visible cracks in the floor of the fifth level were seen before the collapse.


Collapse

In April 1995, cracks began to appear in the ceiling of the south wing's fifth floor. During this period, the only response by Lee and his management staff involved moving merchandise and stores from the top floor to the basement.

On the morning of June 29, the number of cracks in the area increased dramatically, prompting managers to close the top floor and shut the air conditioning off. The store management failed to shut the building down or issue formal evacuation orders, as the number of customers in the building was unusually high, and they did not want to lose the day's revenue. However, the executives themselves left the premises as a precaution.

Civil engineering experts were invited to inspect the structure, with a cursory check revealing that the building was at risk of collapse; the National Geographic documentary series Seconds From Disaster indicates that the facility's manager was examining the slab in one of the restaurants on the fifth floor, eight hours before the collapse, when, unknowingly, vibration from air conditioning was radiating through the cracks in the concrete columns and the floor opened up.

Five hours before the collapse, the first of several loud bangs was heard emanating from the top floors, as the vibration of the air conditioning caused the cracks in the slabs to widen further. Amid customer reports of vibration, the air conditioning was turned off, but the cracks in the floors had already grown to 10 cm.

At about 5:00 p.m. Korea Standard Time (UTC+9:00), the fifth floor ceiling began to sink, resulting in store workers blocking customer access to the fifth floor. According to Seconds From Disaster, the store was packed with shoppers 57 minutes before the collapse, but the owner did not close the store or carry out repairs at that time. When the building started to produce cracking sounds at about 5:50 p.m., workers began to sound alarms and evacuate the building, but by then it was too late.

Around 5:57 p.m., the roof gave way, and the air conditioning unit crashed through into the already-overloaded fifth floor.[SUP][3][/SUP] The main columns, weakened to allow the insertion of the escalators, collapsed in turn, and the building's south wing pancaked into the basement. Within 20 seconds, all of the building's columns in the south wing gave way, trapping more than 1,500 people and killing 502.
 
Those are some good points, but how is 50 Bloor West any different? It's also going to be close to an existing tower, and will sit on top of the subway line. Anyways, it was just an idea.

11202430413_0f1ed0519f_b.jpg
 
Last edited:
I think the primary difference is that the existing HBC store sits DIRECTLY on top of the North-South subway station. That part of the Yonge subway is not particularly deep either. The Holt Renfrew tower is not ontop of a subway station - and I believe the subway runs slightly north to the site, allowing for actual excavation. You can't simply build a tower on top of the existing HBC store without a new foundation and the assumption would be that you can build a strong/ deep enough foundation where the store is because of its location vis-a-vis the subway.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I think the primary difference is that the existing HBC store sits DIRECTLY on top of the North-South subway station. That part of the Yonge subway is not particularly deep either. The Holt Renfrew tower is not ontop of a subway station - and I believe the subway runs slightly north to the site, allowing for actual excavation. You can't simply build a tower on top of the existing HBC store without a new foundation and the assumption would be that you can build a strong/ deep enough foundation where the store is because of its location vis-a-vis the subway.

Good point, pw20, which accounts for the delays and challenges in ultimately redeveloping Cumberland Terrace.
 
share any renders please....
 
Here's hoping it follows through and they don't cheapen out with the renovation. I remember emailing Bonnie sometime ago stating that if they weren't planning on changing HB to at least convert the entire building to a Homeoutfitters flagship store. Having two HBs so close still baffles me.
 
Here's hoping it follows through and they don't cheapen out with the renovation. I remember emailing Bonnie sometime ago stating that if they weren't planning on changing HB to at least convert the entire building to a Homeoutfitters flagship store. Having two HBs so close still baffles me.

It's a holdover from the days before Lord Thompson bought Simpsons in the late '80s/early '90s. Before then Bloor Street was the Bay, and Queen Street was Simpsons. Only now is the Queen Street store getting back to what the old Simpsons had been in terms of merchandise.
 
Those are some good points, but how is 50 Bloor West any different? It's also going to be close to an existing tower, and will sit on top of the subway line. Anyways, it was just an idea.

From what I remember reading elsewhere the Holts building was developed in the 1970's with a tower in mind. So if I am correct the foundations for the tower are already in place.
 
The 40 storey Plaza 2 is on top of the Yonge Line. This part of the Bay Store has three levels of underground parking.

I think the primary difference is that the existing HBC store sits DIRECTLY on top of the North-South subway station. That part of the Yonge subway is not particularly deep either. The Holt Renfrew tower is not ontop of a subway station - and I believe the subway runs slightly north to the site, allowing for actual excavation. You can't simply build a tower on top of the existing HBC store without a new foundation and the assumption would be that you can build a strong/ deep enough foundation where the store is because of its location vis-a-vis the subway.
 
The 40 storey Plaza 2 is on top of the Yonge Line. This part of the Bay Store has three levels of underground parking.
Actually, the 40 storey Plaza 2 is slightly east of the Yonge Line. I'm pretty sure he's correct that The Bay is directly on top of the Yonge line.
 
That is correct: the Yonge Line runs under the portion between the 2 Bloor East office tower and Plaza 2 tower. The three levels of underground parking would be beside the Yonge Line, as the line is only about 2 storeys underground here. The Bloor line is about 4 storeys underground here.

Having the subways under the Bay store does not absolutely preclude new development over it, but it complicates it substantially. The Xerox Building south of Bloor, and the parking garage between Hayden and Charles are both built right over the Yonge line.

The reason that the PATH level of the Hudson's Bay Centre has low ceilings is because the Yonge subway runs immediately underneath it (so it cannot be lowered any more), and the main level of the Bay store was not built any higher above grade in the area. At the time, it seemed like enough clearance to the developers I suppose, and it's somewhat understandable that they did not want to raise the main floor any higher (and make it feel even more disconnected from the sidewalk).

So, it's going to be interesting to see which of the problems with the complex they are able to correct and how…

42
 
Last edited:

Back
Top