Saks Fifth Avenue Flagship (Queen & Yonge)

[Hipster Duck]

This move is very perplexing to me. I can see why the Bay would want to pull out of the HBC centre, but I'm not exactly sure why they think that putting a high-profile American luxury name right beside their own flagship and, far away from where most luxury shopping happens, makes sense. Do they want to cede Yorkville to Holts without a fight? Maybe they're betting that the Eaton Centre will be the new luxury retail destination, after Nordstroms anchors the top of it, but this seems like a bit of a gamble.

 

[thecharioteer]

Also, the Simpson Tower, architecturally, is more than just a "Class B" office building. Designed by Parkin and completed in 1969, it was high regarded at the time in terms of its massing, materials and relation to the existing context. I confess I still have a lot of affection for it.

 

[taal]

HBC is giving up most of their space and moving most staff to Brampton.
It's a class B building - in the financial district.

FYI - the concourse building was fully rented too. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but C-F didn't buy the Simpsons tower to keep it as is. I dont' pretned to know their plans for the site - but it won't be stagnant.

Didn't this already happen, I don't see any sublease options available, I really didn't think HBC has a lot of space left in this building. Where in brampton are they located now ? What about their presence at Bloor and Yonge in that office building ?


Ah wait you mean 8925 Torbram Rd ... hmm, I'm fairly sure they already occupy that building entirely and have done so for a couple years at least ! I really don't think they have much in the Simpson tower .. could be wrong ..


I found old marketing material from about 5 years ago ... over 100K of space was available back then ... I'm pretty sure this is when HBC moved out, but if not, they clearly can only be present in a max of 2/3rd of the building : )

 

[freshcutgrass]

Also, the Simpson Tower, architecturally, is more than just a "Class B" office building. Designed by Parkin and completed in 1969, it was high regarded at the time in terms of its massing, materials and relation to the existing context. I confess I still have a lot of affection for it.

Part of me wants to like it, but it seems to have been just a bit too off the mark and awkward.

 

[officedweller]

The only benefit I can see with Saks being in the CBD (Bay St. side of the site) is being close to those who have money to spend (but who probably don't have a lot of time to shop). I can't see them putting the store on the Yonge St. side - and Eaton Centre is too "populist" to supply Saks with a lot of customers. I for one would just walk in, gasp at the prices, browse, and walk out. Even Nordstrom may have a tough go of it.

***********

I liked the lights around the top of the Simpson Tower - but I guess they don't function anymore...

I think that it suits the "City Hall precinct" if you want to call it that, and adds to the cohesiveness of the area. i.e. imagine if City Hall were surrounded by all glass towers - then City Hall would look out of place.

 

[JasonParis]

I liked the lights around the top of the Simpson Tower - but I guess they don't function anymore...

Just wrote CF asking them to fix this or turn it back on as a sign of "class" from the new ownership. We'll see if I get a response.

 

[thecharioteer]

Another view of the block in 1957, from the observation deck of the Bank of Commerce building on King:

 

[thecharioteer]

Just wrote CF asking them to fix this or turn it back on as a sign of "class" from the new ownership. We'll see if I get a response.

There was a thread dealing with this issue on UT back in 2009:

http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/showthread.php/9800-Simpsons-Tower-Nightime-Lighting

 

[pw20]

Didn't this already happen, I don't see any sublease options available, I really didn't think HBC has a lot of space left in this building. Where in brampton are they located now ? What about their presence at Bloor and Yonge in that office building ?


Ah wait you mean 8925 Torbram Rd ... hmm, I'm fairly sure they already occupy that building entirely and have done so for a couple years at least ! I really don't think they have much in the Simpson tower .. could be wrong ..


I found old marketing material from about 5 years ago ... over 100K of space was available back then ... I'm pretty sure this is when HBC moved out, but if not, they clearly can only be present in a max of 2/3rd of the building : )

I don't know how much space they have left in the building - I do know that ALL staff who work in Simpsons building have been told (this was prior to the recent C-F announcement by the way) that positions will continue to be migrated to Brampton. I don't think the Bay has any staff at Yonge and Bloor anymore (they left around the time the office bldg was refurbished). The name for Yonge and Bloor is still associated with HBC, as the store, as ugly as it is, is still the marquee tenant.

Again - I don't think the short-term game is to tear down that building, but the rent differential on a class b office building versus a Class A office building is pretty significant. The long-term thinking is 100% there.

 

[thecharioteer]

I think that the projected costs on re-fitting (or demolishing) the Yonge and Bloor store, given its split-level entrances, its ceiling heights and its position on top of the subway/underground mall would have been astronomical and may have still resulted in a second-rate building.

Carving out a Saks store within the Simpson's block is much more manageable.

 

[freshcutgrass]

Carving out a Saks store within the Simpson's block is much more manageable.

Especially considering the renovating work was required at Queen St anyway.

This does better than kill two birds...it allows them to make huge profits selling off assets (which is what the American raider had planned in the first place). It allows them to keep turning the 1 million sqft store into more shop-in-shops, with higher margin merch and less exposure do to partnerships.

The one mistake is trying to introduce a boring Saks, which is struggling to keep an image that has worn, to a new market is not very creative (not that the new owners are creative or are interested in creativity in the first place). How many "upscale" stores do we need selling the same fawking branded luxury goods?

HBC is older than all of them, and has pedigree oozing out its ass. And unlike any of the other retailers, is itself a brand. And one that could be exploited not just locally but globally in the hands of the right creative people.

Gee...where shall I buy my LV bag today...shall I buy it in the stand-alone store on Bloor, or at the shop-in-shop at Holts, or the shop-in-shop at Saks, or the shop-in-shop at Nordstroms?

On a side note....does anyone remember the stand alone Dunhill shop in the Simpsons Bay street frontage?

 

[taal]

I don't know how much space they have left in the building - I do know that ALL staff who work in Simpsons building have been told (this was prior to the recent C-F announcement by the way) that positions will continue to be migrated to Brampton. I don't think the Bay has any staff at Yonge and Bloor anymore (they left around the time the office bldg was refurbished). The name for Yonge and Bloor is still associated with HBC, as the store, as ugly as it is, is still the marquee tenant.

Again - I don't think the short-term game is to tear down that building, but the rent differential on a class b office building versus a Class A office building is pretty significant. The long-term thinking is 100% there.

Thanks ! You seem to have some inside knowledge which is great.

Well in that case I'd argue this is pretty unfortunate, jobs moving out of the core is a trend that still takes place, its just quieter then in the past .. as there is a lot of the opposite as well. But I think its important to remember migration out of the core is still very well alive today, but potentially canceled out by the opposite.

You also answered my next question ; - ) which was going to be why is there a huge Bay sign on top of the Bloor building, but that makes a lot of sense (i.e. they're the major retail tenant). So that building, which is fairly full (~90% or so) doesn't have any offices for the Bay.


Its funny though as part of this deal they did agree to sublease the office space themselves for at least 25 years ... that means the Bay will be on the hook for finding a tenants to replace the space they give up, or pay the double cost of rent.

 

[Filip]

Thanks ! You seem to have some inside knowledge which is great.

Well in that case I'd argue this is pretty unfortunate, jobs moving out of the core is a trend that still takes place, its just quieter then in the past .. as there is a lot of the opposite as well. But I think its important to remember migration out of the core is still very well alive today, but potentially canceled out by the opposite.

You also answered my next question ; - ) which was going to be why is there a huge Bay sign on top of the Bloor building, but that makes a lot of sense (i.e. they're the major retail tenant). So that building, which is fairly full (~90% or so) doesn't have any offices for the Bay.


Its funny though as part of this deal they did agree to sublease the office space themselves for at least 25 years ... that means the Bay will be on the hook for finding a tenants to replace the space they give up, or pay the double cost of rent.

It's quite unfortunate. I wonder how they attract/retain talent if the offices are in Brampton. When downtown, all employees can get there semi-easily given GO Transit. I could never 'commute' to Brampton from where I live unless I drove.. And oh my.. That drive would be quite a drive... If my employer said my position is being shifted to Mississauga - I would leave, and so would most of the younger talent.

It's sad to have such myopic companies in this city.

 

[JasonParis]

Even sadder considering the Zellers division is no more, which arguably would melt with a suburban workforce a bit better. Hudson's Bay H.Q. just seems to ooze a bit more urbanity than Torbram Road.

 

[TOareaFan]

It's quite unfortunate. I wonder how they attract/retain talent if the offices are in Brampton. When downtown, all employees can get there semi-easily given GO Transit. I could never 'commute' to Brampton from where I live unless I drove.. And oh my.. That drive would be quite a drive... If my employer said my position is being shifted to Mississauga - I would leave, and so would most of the younger talent.

It's sad to have such myopic companies in this city.

By 2016 their offices in Brampton will be a fairly short Zum ride from a subway station.