Rob Ford's Toronto

[TheKingEast]

I think the downside is mostly psychological. It could send people into a hoarding tizzy and could generally disrupt business more so than already disrupted.

I think the whole SOE situation would be null if a different mayor would be in power. Not because they would have called a SOE, but because the desire for Ford to call a - is really reactionary not to our situation as dire as it may, but to Mayor Ford. Ford is an asshat and incompetent, so the desire for him to declare a state of emergency is truly a desire for him to reduce his powers.

For anyone who lived in Montreal during the ice storm - the city was shut down. Downtown was completely impassable. Since Monday, Toronto (even for the majority of those without power) has functioned. I harboured some family members beacuse I had power and it was a bit cozy - we had fun. That being said - the streets were busy, people went to work, the streetcar system was turned on, the subway worked. Loblaws wasn't overrun with people stocking up on running water. It wasn't a "state of emergency" in whatever sense one thinks of it. (not to be a debbie downer, but I suspect this isn't the last of crazy weather we'll see in our lifetime).

In my opinion the call for the Mayor to declare a state of emergency really had nothing to do with the impact of declaring a state of emergency, which as Towey points out is meaningless, but has to do with our general dislike of our Mayor and a desire to power to transition from him to Norm Kelly in a SOE. This is all fine and dandy, but let's be somewhat sincere with our motivations.

The huw and cry and ad hominem attacks against people for saying the past week was not a "state of emergency" doesn't seem, in my opinion, to be reflective of actual sentiment. The SOE has more to do with Ford then anything else. That he possibly didn't declare a SOE out of his own malicious need for power is further indictment of the man himself... but that's really par Ford the course.

Off the mark. Again, how people can think NOTHING would have changed with a SOE is baffling. While Ford may be taking some heat from people that just don't like him..he's getting an incredible amount of support from Ford Nation. So what's the difference, really? I was on his side till this storm hit. Looking at how he bumbled this whole thing, it really brought all the other red flags I overlooked about him into question.

 

[picard102]

Off the mark. Again, how people can think NOTHING would have changed with a SOE is baffling.

What would have changed?

 

[mrtinfoilsocket]

Off the mark. Again, how people can think NOTHING would have changed with a SOE is baffling.

Because you can't prove or show how it would have... even though you keep repeating it over and over and over again. EVERYTHING I've read and seen as reported by various sources the last few days disagrees with you.

 

[mrtinfoilsocket]

Here's the problem with the SOE issue. For so long, Ford has used opinion and emotion to convince Toronto of his populist ways. Now that he needs people to believe a few facts about the ice storm and the effect of declaring an emergency, it's emotion and opinion that will continue to overrule the day. Live by the populist sword, die by the populist sword.

You're completely correct and I guess that's what's bothering the political geek in me. I want the masses to vote against Rob Ford because he's an incompetent liar generally, spends his work days meeting drug dealers exchanging shady packages and envelopes and smokes crack with violent, dangerous gang members. Not for a belief or feeling that he should have declared an SOE even though it likely wouldn't have changed anything anyway.

 

[eyewonder]

Is there a preferred reading list of articles that I can can forward to the the members of my family that have drank the Ford Nation juice?

Ugh, Christmas got a bit ugly for a minute.

 

[pw20]

Because you can't prove or show how it would have... even though you keep repeating it over and over and over again. EVERYTHING I've read and seen as reported by various sources the last few days disagrees with you.

For the record - we're dealing with someone who admittedly was on side with Rob Ford UNTIL the ice storm.... The SOE (not crack, not enough to eat home, not DRUNK DRIVING was what pushed King East over the edge: "I was on his side till this storm hit. Looking at how he bumbled this whole thing, it really brought all the other red flags I overlooked about him into question."

 

[DTGeek]

In my opinion the call for the Mayor to declare a state of emergency really had nothing to do with the impact of declaring a state of emergency, which as Towey points out is meaningless, but has to do with our general dislike of our Mayor and a desire to power to transition from him to Norm Kelly in a SOE. This is all fine and dandy, but let's be somewhat sincere with our motivations.

I agree that the desire for a SOE is psychological, but I think there's an even more primal hypothesis: during a crisis of any kind humans tend to look for strong leadership to rally around. And Ford hasn't even tried to provide that, not that he would be capable if he did try.

Maybe it's wishful thinking, but I suspect this will erode his remaining support appreciably. A lot of Ford's supporters and fence-sitters were able to overlook his character and the fact that half the city despises him, because these things simply didn't matter during the day-to-day stuff, and if anything were an advantage since it pissed off his (their) opponents. But in this first true test of leadership, they're seeing that he's not actually the alpha of the pack, and so it's time to switch loyalties.

 

[Tee]

So true. Its like those movies where the leader of a nation (IE President) takes control of a jet plane to attack an alien invasion. Not going to happen.

I do not expect the Mayor or Deputy Mayor to climb up a pole to reconnect wires that came down, either. They are not linesmen.

The real heroes during the ice storm:
[video=youtube_share;QynK5IDalmA]http://youtu.be/QynK5IDalmA[/video]

I believe that Norm Kelly should have stayed in town. There are legitimate reasons, which we're all very aware of, for the deputy Mayor to maintain a high profile throughout this. The site of a crack smoking, lying Mayor being the point person during some of these updates makes many people understandably uneasy. Couple that with the fact that there's a very good reason to believe, knowing Rob Ford, that he was just using this event for political purposes. Norm Kelly could have visited his relative(s) next week. I realize that he didn't ask for these new Mayoral responsibilities. He apologized in this morning's press conference, which I appreciated. How refreshing to see someone take responsibility instead of running from the media, or lying.

 

[TOperson]

I believe that Norm Kelly should have stayed in town. There are legitimate reasons, which we're all very aware of, for the deputy Mayor to maintain a high profile throughout this. The site of a crack smoking, lying Mayor being the point person during some of these updates makes many people understandably uneasy. Couple that with the fact that there's a very good reason to believe, knowing Rob Ford, that he was just using this event for political purposes. Norm Kelly could have visited his relative(s) next week. I realize that he didn't ask for these new Mayoral responsibilities. He apologized in this morning's press conference, which I appreciated. How refreshing to see someone take responsibility instead of running from the media, or lying.

Norm Kelly's trip was less than 24 hours though, and he was easily reachable by phone etc. Just doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me.

 

[typezed]

If we were in the political situation we were in two or three months ago, with Ford still Mayor in total but starting to be isolated and criticized from all sides for his behaviour, he certainly would have used the SOE provision to secure and expand his powers. So at least the current arrangement has saved us from him having the ability to exploit the emergency for a power grab. It is controversial now not because it probably would have made much difference on the ground, but because we can't trust that Ford is making any decisions for the good of others rather than his own self-interest.

Kelly went to Florida and came back in a day. It actually seems to me like here he has gone beyond the call of duty. The trip must have been earlier scheduled for a longer period. I imagine it could have cost him plenty out of pocket to reschedule to the one day and back trip. Shouldn't resent someone for family obligations on Christmas. Fanning the flames of fake outrage on issues like this is what rewarded us with the truly outrageous Mayor Ford.

 

[tiffer24]

Ford nakedly campaigning with his photo opportunities and fridge magnets during the worst of the ice storm will not be forgotten. A basic lack of human decency, a low point even for this mayor.

 

[mrtinfoilsocket]

Kelly went to Florida and came back in a day. It actually seems to me like here he has gone beyond the call of duty. The trip must have been earlier scheduled for a longer period. I imagine it could have cost him plenty out of pocket to reschedule to the one day and back trip. Shouldn't resent someone for family obligations on Christmas. Fanning the flames of fake outrage on issues like this is what rewarded us with the truly outrageous Mayor Ford.

I actually agree with you and I'm not going to hold it against him - generally I like Kelly, his judgement and his leadership so far. On the other hand he probably should have realized the optics were poor. Especially considering we had an army of men and women in hydro lift buckets who likely sacrificed THEIR Christmas plans. Politics is a game of optics and if you want to play it, you should be ready to "take one for the team" once in a while. Still, I'm willing to give Kelly a pass on this one and his genuine apology was indeed refreshing given what we've heard from Ford the last three years.

 

[dforthandbview]

Has Doug Ford shown one iota of concern for the residents of his ward? Is he in Florida?

 

[guy caballero]

Still 38,000 "customers" w/out power in city of T.O.
One "customer" could be apartment with a few hundred people.
My guess is still 100,000 "people" are in "state of emergency".

DoFo isn't around spouting "taxpayers", "for the taxpayers"

It is an emergency for these 100,000 or so people.
Doubt there are a dozen cities in Ontario exceeding that population.


Our proven crack smoking, drunk driving Mayor failed again.

 

[SecretSquirrel]

View attachment 21208

Here's an old school Lisi pic I found in my old yearbook. He's around 16-17 here, around when he first started dealing. He got booted from Richview so came to Scarlett Heights and took this B.S. parenting course for an easy credit...

So what you're saying is he's holding a bag of sugar, flour or some other powder here?

Great pic - thanks!