Rob Ford's Toronto

[freshcutgrass]

Conrad Black is unreadable for me

Conrad Black lives in his own little bubble of reality. Always has....always will.

His opinion piece was basically a Doug Ford speech rewritten by someone with better than grade 7 writing skills. Poor old Conrad is just re-living his own "oh how the mighty have fallen" story through Rob Ford, because of course...he did no wrong either.

 

[RogerD]

Yea that seems like a calculated PR "leak", to appease a frustrated public after the BBQ/APB story.

I'm just hoping the ongoing investigation isn't going to end up as a dead end.

This isn't a PR leak. The Star has been working with this info for a while. Trying to confirm more details before publishing. They don't hold info to make the TPS look better.

 

[W. K. Lis]

How is someone who was 30 a "youth"?

The life expectancy during the Roman Empire was about 28 years. By medieval times, with some provision of care, the life expectancy increased to around 33. By 1900, life expectancy increased to 50, by 1950 it increased to 65, and by 2000, in the West at least, it has increased to around 80.

So during the Roman Empire, by age 30, you would be an old man, or "elder" as is written in the books of the time.

 

[dforthandbview]

"In mid-August, an ongoing Star investigation revealed Lisi was the man who was aggressively attempting to obtain the “crack video” in the days after stories of its existence broke. After that, Lisi’s behaviour vis-à-vis the mayor changed, according to one source. Giroux and his team had to regroup."

So, essentially, The Star had altered Lisi's relationship with the mayor and therefore the investigation into him because they brought his name to the public's attention. That begs the question, should The Star not have done that then?

 

[mrtinfoilsocket]

So, essentially, The Star had altered Lisi's relationship with the mayor and therefore the investigation into him because they brought his name to the public's attention. That begs the question, should The Star not have done that then?

In fairness though - the media doesn't have an obligation to assist the police with ongoing investigations. News is news and presumably the TPS wasn't keeping them in the loop on this case so how can they be expected to know what might or might not affect that investigation?

Surely the TPS had to be working under the assumption that this stuff would start hitting the media.

 

[VTB]

Hey guys! Put your sexist bullshit and useless phone debates away!

Actual Ford news...and very, very interesting:

http://bit.ly/1egzqse

My takeaway from this article:

1. TPS don't have wiretaps on Lisi or Ford, merely phone records.

2. Bulk of info was from surveillance which was further compromised when Lisi became aware.

3. Without wiretap of phone conversations from those critical 3 days back in May, any charges of extortion/obstruction will depend on either Lisi spilling or those charged in Project Traveller cooperating. If neither happens, then Teflon MINO Ford skates again!! DAMN!!

 

[BurlOak]

The life expectancy during the Roman Empire was about 28 years. By medieval times, with some provision of care, the life expectancy increased to around 33. By 1900, life expectancy increased to 50, by 1950 it increased to 65, and by 2000, in the West at least, it has increased to around 80.

So during the Roman Empire, by age 30, you would be an old man, or "elder" as is written in the books of the time.

I do not know this for sure, but I would say the "true" life expectancy was more similar to what it is today.

If 3 of 10 children die in infancy, then the average life would be (3 x 2 + 7 x 70 ) / 10 = 50 years. Just by saving those children, the average life could go up to 70 - an increase in 20 years even if the average adult does not live any longer. And I would think that the 30% mortality is not too far off what is was at the turn of the last century. I could not even guess what the mortality rate was thousands of years ago.

 

[TOperson]

The life expectancy during the Roman Empire was about 28 years. By medieval times, with some provision of care, the life expectancy increased to around 33. By 1900, life expectancy increased to 50, by 1950 it increased to 65, and by 2000, in the West at least, it has increased to around 80.

So during the Roman Empire, by age 30, you would be an old man, or "elder" as is written in the books of the time.

There are all kinds of problems with estimating the life expectancies of the past. Records are minimal or non-existent, and there are all kinds of local variations over time. Even now, life expectancy is not 80 across the board. Some groups have much lower life expectancies.

 

[dforthandbview]

My takeaway from this article:

1. TPS don't have wiretaps on Lisi or Ford, merely phone records.

2. Bulk of info was from surveillance which was further compromised when Lisi became aware.

3. Without wiretap of phone conversations from those critical 3 days back in May, any charges of extortion/obstruction will depend on either Lisi spilling or those charged in Project Traveller cooperating. If neither happens, then Teflon MINO Ford skates again!! DAMN!!

Another detail to take note of is the article says “Juice-Man" is a "young man". So that cancels out the two theories that "Juice-Man" is either his new trainer or Payman Aboodowleh.

 

[freshcutgrass]

I do not know this for sure, but I would say the "true" life expectancy was more similar to what it is today.

This is true. Human lifespans are about the same now as they were in Roman times. It was high infant mortality rates that skewed the average down drastically, because that is life expectancy at age "zero" So, a 30 year old would not be considered any more of an "elder" in Roman times than he would today, because the life expectancy at age 30 won't be that much different.

 

[zang]

So during the Roman Empire, by age 30, you would be an old man, or "elder" as is written in the books of the time.

Life expectancy during that time had a lot to do with disease, famine and war than dying of old age. But the main reason that life expectancy was so low has more to do with extremely high infant mortality rates. "Elders" weren't 30-year olds, but 80-year olds like Plato.

 

[voxpopulicosmicum]

My takeaway from this article:

1. TPS don't have wiretaps on Lisi or Ford, merely phone records.

2. Bulk of info was from surveillance which was further compromised when Lisi became aware.

3. Without wiretap of phone conversations from those critical 3 days back in May, any charges of extortion/obstruction will depend on either Lisi spilling or those charged in Project Traveller cooperating. If neither happens, then Teflon MINO Ford skates again!! DAMN!!

As with other high profile TPS investigations of people close to the TPS (anyone remember 52 division's implosion?), one could reasonably suspect that less-than-perfect investigative techniques were deliberately employed to yield the appearance of a real investigation without the messy results. Yes, Ford is revealed as the horrible person *we* all knew him to be, but to many of those who didn't already believe that to be the case, this could just be a somewhat confusing interlude.

I'm really starting to understand pogroms now, I think.

 

[VTB]

As with other high profile TPS investigations of people close to the TPS (anyone remember 52 division's implosion?), one could reasonably suspect that less-than-perfect investigative techniques were deliberately employed to yield the appearance of a real investigation without the messy results. Yes, Ford is revealed as the horrible person *we* all knew him to be, but to many of those who didn't already believe that to be the case, this could just be a somewhat confusing interlude.

I'm really starting to understand pogroms now, I think.

I don't know if this is a case of TPS intentionally fudging the investigation.

If they had the foresight to put wiretaps on Lisi during those 3 days of phone calls, the case of conspiracy/obstruction involving Rob Ford would probably have been a slam dunk.

But no one knew back then what we know now!

 

[VTB]

The minimum for extortion is four years. That's a lot of time to do for someone you've only know for a couple of years. I think they at least have Sandro on the wire calling Siad and Windsor.

I always thought they had wiretaps on these people too. But this article implies TPS ONLY has phone records. That is a huge difference and, as far as nailing Ford is concerned, a big letdown.

TPS may have charged Lisi on extortion in the hopes he will spill on Ford. After this article, I'm not sure how strong a case the police have.

I'm just getting a really bad feeling that they don't have anything they can pin on Ford, circumstantial evidence not withstanding.

 

[pattycakes]

I always thought they had wiretaps on these people too. But this article implies TPS ONLY has phone records. That is a huge difference and, as far as nailing Ford is concerned, a big letdown.

TPS may have charged Lisi on extortion in the hopes he will spill on Ford. After this article, I'm not sure how strong a case the police have.

I'm just getting a really bad feeling that they don't have anything they can pin on Ford, circumstantial evidence not withstanding.

Don't forget they had wire taps on the Dixon Rd. gangs. Lisi called them, that's how TPS became aware of the video, and Ford's involvement. Those wire taps are part of Traveller, and they haven't disclosed anything on those yet.