Rob Ford's Toronto

[Danny Crispin]

Outstanding logic. But you will find my reply just as persuasive:

Conservatives=

Progressives=

Hope that's settled, then.

Hitler was a conservative? I thought conservatives supported things like gun rights, and not disarming their own people, like Hitler did? They also want less government intrusion into their personal lives -- Hitler didn't exactly live up to this ideal.

As for the other picture -- Radiohead, The Smiths or Morrissey would suffice --they're all equally pretentious. Johnny Marr deserves credit, however. He is a great songwriter/guitarist. I wonder how someone like Morrissey would have survived in the middle ages -- since "Meat is Murder"? What would he do if he were stranded in the wild and had nothing to eat? Would he go hunting for tofu?

She has a budget of about $35 Million a year from a variety of sources. The $100M is the Federal amount over the past few years for which a forensic audit was conducted which discovered that about 80% of the transactions could not be accounted for (no receipts) or deemed inappropriate!

Here is the 2011 consolidated financial statement issued by Attawapiskat FN http://www.attawapiskat.org/wp-content/uploads/2011-Consolidated-Finanacial-Statements.pdf

Notice revenue from all sources is just short of $35 Million a year (they also have a $60 Million surplus!). I believe that at the most they have about 1800 people living on the reserve so this works out to about $77,000 per family of four TAX FREE (the equivalent of well over $100K for the rest of us!). This is just the government handouts - many on the reserve also work at the De Beers Diamond mine making big bucks.

With all this money pouring into this tiny community why are so many living in deplorable living conditions? Either this is the worst example of financial mismanagement in Canada or one of the larger cases of fraud. The RCMP should be investigating Spence but instead the government and the media (with the lone exception of SUN media) are treating her with kid gloves. Yesterday our idiot Governor General expressed "concern" for Spence's health. By now it should be apparent to anyone with any intelligence that Spence is faking her hunger strike.

EDIT: Just to put things further into perspective - the $60 Million surplus is the equivalent of a $ 17 BILLION surplus for Toronto! Can you imagine the shape Toronto would be in if we had a $17 BILLION surplus? And yet these people are crying out for more taxpayer money?

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/video/2070949556001

Jeepers, creepers, where'd you get that, Peepers?

You know you can't show facts and expect them to be acknowledged. Get real!

Oh, it's a Sun News link, so it has got to be sensationalism, because they're just FOX News North, and people here don't take anything seriously that isn't written beyond a 'grade 10 reading level'.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

Hitler was a conservative? I thought conservatives supported things like gun rights, and not disarming their own people, like Hitler did? They also want less government intrusion into their personal lives -- Hitler didn't exactly live up to this ideal.

As for the other picture -- Radiohead, The Smiths or Morrissey would suffice --they're all equally pretentious. Johnny Marr deserves credit, however. He is a great songwriter/guitarist. I wonder how someone like Morrissey would have survived in the middle ages -- since "Meat is Murder"? What would he do if he were stranded in the wild and had nothing to eat? Would he go hunting for tofu?



Jeepers, creepers, where'd you get that, Peepers?

You know you can't show facts and expect them to be acknowledged. Get real!

Oh, it's a Sun News link, so it has got to be sensationalism, because they're just FOX News North, and people here don't take anything seriously that isn't written beyond a 'grade 10 reading level'.

Danny - Few people jump the shark on their 6th post. Congrats.

Peepers - I must admit I did not understand the fact that all payments to individual natives were funnelled through the reservation office. Even so, other than both playing out in the same timeframe, the two situations are pretty much apples and oranges. I share your outrage over Native Affairs misspending, but it doesn't mean the Mayor shouldn't be an ex-mayor.

 

[toto]

Native Affairs misspending pales in comparison to Harper's Government fiscal follies. G20 - $ billion+. F35s - $???. $50 million spend in Tony Clement's riding for sidewalks and gazebos, for wealthy cottagers. What's the difference between the governments massive mis-management of the public purse and Native affairs? It's all taxpayer's dollars.

 

[MetroMan]

Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Now we're discussing Hitler.
(P.S. If there's not a thread for aboriginal affairs and Idle No More, please create one)

THREAD DERAILED

Now, to get back on track:

With Rob Ford's term ending now imminent, what do you think will be the long term effects on Toronto -- bad, good, policy direction, party politics?

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

Toronto has never been so divided and fractured, and it's ugly. More than anything, I'd really like to see the beginning to an end of the left wing/right wing downtown/suburban divisive politics at City Hall. I hope that whoever takes Ford's place, or who wins in a by-election is someone who can begin to heal the divide, have a clear understanding of the needs of all areas of the city and move Toronto forward on the important issues that face us all without turning ever major issue into political football.

 

[adma]

Toronto has never been so divided and fractured, and it's ugly. More than anything, I'd really like to see the beginning to an end of the left wing/right wing downtown/suburban divisive politics at City Hall. I hope that whoever takes Ford's place, or who wins in a by-election is someone who can begin to heal the divide, have a clear understanding of the needs of all areas of the city and move Toronto forward on the important issues that face us all without turning ever major issue into political football.

2003 was supposed to have done that (Miller vs Tory, I mean). Maybe back to that kind of future (which is me being equally pro-Tory and pro-Miller, if you get my drift)

 

[Peepers]

Toronto has never been so divided and fractured, and it's ugly. More than anything, I'd really like to see the beginning to an end of the left wing/right wing downtown/suburban divisive politics at City Hall. I hope that whoever takes Ford's place, or who wins in a by-election is someone who can begin to heal the divide, have a clear understanding of the needs of all areas of the city and move Toronto forward on the important issues that face us all without turning ever major issue into political football.

There isn't so much of a left-wing / right-wing divide as there is a divide between those who are part of the establishment and those who are outside the establishment.

Rob Ford was never part of the establishment so he gets attacked not only by left-leaning media such as the Star but also the establishment media, e.g. Globe and National Post.

John Tory and David Miller are part of the Bay Street establishment and even though they are supposedly on opposite sides of the political spectrum the fact is there is not much difference between them. Tory is a Tory in name only and Miller has dropped his affiliation with the NDP. I bet these two "opposites" move in the exact same social circles. These are the ruling elite in our country and to these people political labels don't mean much - pedigree is all that matters to them.

 

[cdr108]

There isn't so much of a left-wing / right-wing divide as there is a divide between those who are part of the establishment and those who are outside the establishment.

Rob Ford was never part of the establishment so he gets attacked not only by left-leaning media such as the Star but also the establishment media, e.g. Globe and National Post.

John Tory and David Miller are part of the Bay Street establishment and even though they are supposedly on opposite sides of the political spectrum the fact is there is not much difference between them. Tory is a Tory in name only and Miller has dropped his affiliation with the NDP. I bet these two "opposites" move in the exact same social circles. These are the ruling elite in our country and to these people political labels don't mean much - pedigree is all that matters to them.

are you really bringing up establishment as to why RF is disliked (besides the fact that he's a complete fool) ?!?

let's see ... one was half-orphaned and raised by a single mother, while the other was born into an upper middle-class family that has grown to upper class;
one went to school on scholarship, the other went to football camps by the Washington Redskins and the University of Notre Dame on daddy's bill and left university after 1 year;
one worked hard to become a partner in a law firm, the other has a job as director of family company;
one has been supportive and critical of the provincial and federal Liberals and NDPs, while the other has political connections with the provincial PC and the federal Conservative Parties.


David Miller (from wikipedia):

* born December 26, 1958 - father, Joe Miller, died of cancer in 1960
* attended Lakefield College School on a scholarship.
* completed a four-year undergraduate degree at Harvard University, graduating summa cum laude in Economics in 1981.
* earned a Bachelor of Laws degree from the University of Toronto Faculty of Law in 1984.
* became a partner at the prominent Toronto law firm of Aird & Berlis LLP, specializing in employment, immigration law and shareholder rights.
* leading voice in exposing Toronto's MFP computer leasing scandal in 2001 and 2002, bringing to light several questionable lobbying practices at city hall. (had to include this as some forum member erroneously attributed the MFP scandal to Miller's administration)
* Following his term as mayor, Miller rejoined the law firm of Aird & Berlis LLP where he specializes in international business and sustainability. He splits his time between Toronto and Brooklyn, New York where he accepted a three-year appointment at the Polytechnic Institute of New York University as Future of Cities Global Fellow and will teach courses on finding technological solutions to urban problems.
* Former Minister of State for Infrastructure and Communities John Godfrey said Miller's leadership shone in his capacity as a member of the Big City Mayors caucus.

"After Paul Martin (then Prime Minister) presented his October 2004 Throne speech, he invited the Big City Mayors spontaneously to come back to 24 Sussex (the PM's residence) and eventually that wound up around the national dinner table with the mayors and David Miller leading the conversation with Martin," said Godfrey. "Out of that partnership came a number of extraordinary things, including the rebate on the GST for cities and the gas tax deals which we signed across the country for renewable infrastructure. That we can thank David for.

"And what was really important was that that leadership extended to the ground of Toronto itself...He brought together politicians, civil servants and members of civil society to work for a common mission. That's leadership on the ground and that's also national leadership."



Rob Ford (from wikipedia):

* born May 28, 1969 - Ford's father Doug Ford, Sr. was also a politician and served as MPP. The Ford family owns DECO Labels, a multi-national labelling and printing firm based in Etobicoke.
* was first elected to city council in the 2000 Toronto municipal election, and was re-elected to his council seat in 2003 and again in 2006.
* dreamed of becoming a professional football player and his father paid for Ford to attend special camps of the Washington Redskins and the University of Notre Dame.
* went to Carleton University (studying political science), where he made the football squad, but did not play in any games. Ford left Carleton after one year to return to Toronto.
* started a sales job at the family's DECO business. After Doug Ford Sr.'s death in 2006, the Ford family retained ownership of the firm through the Doug Ford Holdings corporation. Ford, along with his brothers and his mother are directors of the company.
* Ford Sr. became a Member of the Ontario Legislature during the term of the Progressive Conservative government of Mike Harris. After Ford Sr.'s death, Rob has maintained political connections with the provincial PC and the federal Conservative Parties. Former Ontario Premier Mike Harris regularly gives advice to Ford.

 

[nfitz]

Rob Ford was never part of the establishment so he gets attacked not only by left-leaning media such as the Star but also the establishment media, e.g. Globe and National Post.

Not sure what that means. Rob Ford has also been savagely attacked by the Economist ... and even attacked by the Toronto Sun.

Miller was savagely attacked by "left-leaning media such as the Star" as well as other media.

Perhaps the media savagely attacking people merely sells papers.

 

[Peepers]

are you really bringing up establishment as to why RF is disliked (besides the fact that he's a complete fool) ?!?

let's see ... one was half-orphaned and raised by a single mother, while the other was born into an upper middle-class family that has grown to upper class;
one went to school on scholarship, the other went to football camps by the Washington Redskins and the University of Notre Dame on daddy's bill and left university after 1 year;
one worked hard to become a partner in a law firm, the other has a job as director of family company;
one has been supportive and critical of the provincial and federal Liberals and NDPs, while the other has political connections with the provincial PC and the federal Conservative Parties.
.

It is a mistake to think that because Ford was born into a well-off family that he is automatically part of the establishment or that because Miller was raised by a single mother he could not be part of this establishment.

Miller is part of the establishment not by way of birthright but by way of his accomplishments. A graduate of Harvard (a class-mate of Obama) he is on a first name basis with Bill Clinton and Michael Bloomberg. As a partner in one of the largest and most important law firms on Bay st. Miller is solidly a part of the establishment (this is not a criticism of Miller. I am not a fan of Miller but acknowledge his impressive accomplishments).

Ford on the other hand comes from a family that despite having some money act like Hillbilly's. This is more complex than right vs. left or rich vs. poor.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

It is a mistake to think that because Ford was born into a well-off family that he is automatically part of the establishment or that because Miller was raised by a single mother he could not be part of this establishment.

Miller is part of the establishment not by way of birthright but by way of his accomplishments. A graduate of Harvard (a class-mate of Obama) he is on a first name basis with Bill Clinton and Michael Bloomberg. As a partner in one of the largest and most important law firms on Bay st. Miller is solidly a part of the establishment (this is not a criticism of Miller. I am not a fan of Miller but acknowledge his impressive accomplishments).

Ford on the other hand comes from a family that despite having some money act like Hillbilly's. This is more complex than right vs. left or rich vs. poor.

Peepers, it's not complex at all. Ford is attacked because he acts like an ignorent buffoon. Even if you think his populism bent is the correct way to go, his style is horrible. And, in my case, I also think his politics, particularly his transit stupidity, compounds the issue a hundred times. He is, to put it politely, 1/1000th of the mayor Miller was.

 

[PinkLucy]

Ford on the other hand comes from a family that despite having some money act like Hillbilly's.

Finally something we can agree on!

 

[ShonTron]

It is a mistake to think that because Ford was born into a well-off family that he is automatically part of the establishment or that because Miller was raised by a single mother he could not be part of this establishment.

Miller is part of the establishment not by way of birthright but by way of his accomplishments. A graduate of Harvard (a class-mate of Obama) he is on a first name basis with Bill Clinton and Michael Bloomberg. As a partner in one of the largest and most important law firms on Bay st. Miller is solidly a part of the establishment (this is not a criticism of Miller. I am not a fan of Miller but acknowledge his impressive accomplishments).

Ford on the other hand comes from a family that despite having some money act like Hillbilly's. This is more complex than right vs. left or rich vs. poor.

Good post, I agree on all counts.

 

[ShonTron]

It is a mistake to think that because Ford was born into a well-off family that he is automatically part of the establishment or that because Miller was raised by a single mother he could not be part of this establishment.
...
Ford on the other hand comes from a family that despite having some money act like Hillbilly's. This is more complex than right vs. left or rich vs. poor.

Peepers, it's not complex at all. Ford is attacked because he acts like an ignorent buffoon. Even if you think his populism bent is the correct way to go, his style is horrible. And, in my case, I also think his politics, particularly his transit stupidity, compounds the issue a hundred times. He is, to put it politely, 1/1000th of the mayor Miller was.

I agree with most of the points raised in both posts above.

Ford, despite his family's wealth, does not really live a wealthy lifestyle, and his family does appear to be more Hillbilly than what would pass in the "establishment". Miller, not for his wealth, but for his training and career, and now his connections, is much more part of that "establishment".

Mel Lastman was also a buffoon, but his (mostly self-made) wealth and his connections (which Ford always lacked) made him part of that "establishment" too.

 

[cdr108]

It is a mistake to think that because Ford was born into a well-off family that he is automatically part of the establishment or that because Miller was raised by a single mother he could not be part of this establishment.

Miller is part of the establishment not by way of birthright but by way of his accomplishments. A graduate of Harvard (a class-mate of Obama) he is on a first name basis with Bill Clinton and Michael Bloomberg. As a partner in one of the largest and most important law firms on Bay st. Miller is solidly a part of the establishment (this is not a criticism of Miller. I am not a fan of Miller but acknowledge his impressive accomplishments).

Ford on the other hand comes from a family that despite having some money act like Hillbilly's. This is more complex than right vs. left or rich vs. poor.

while i agree that Miller's accomplishments have put him in the right circles, you can't be so dismissive of Ford's connections.

RF may not be representative of your ideology of the establishment because of his hillbilly attitude; however, he does have the wealth and social networks available to him. As previously stated, he maintains political connections with the provincial and federal Conservative Parties, and former Ontario Premier Mike Harris regularly gives advice to Ford.