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Rob Ford's Toronto

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The police bungled the G20 and there are some disturbing cases being brought to light recently.

I think the statement of Toronto's police force being the most corrupt and worse on the continent though is a bit over the top.

We live in a city where the head of the police union is the son of a former chief of police. Both the head of the police union and his brother have been up on corruption charges, at least one of them for running shakedowns. If this doesn't sound like something out of LA Confidential.

In fact, I would say that bullying is a natural trait that allows certain individuals to move up the ranks and take charge.

It also helps to inherit a successful company.
 
I don't know about that. Are municipal jobs lower paying than those in the private sector? Looking down the list of available jobs a while ago, government jobs pay quite a bit more than comparable private sector positions. It's definitely true for provincial jobs.

In any case, I have no problem with the city paying more for a great workforce - unfortunately a lot of government workers take advantage of it.
I don't know about administrative or blue collar work but for professionals like planners or engineers there's generally more oppourtunity for money in the private sector. I know people who have taken pay cuts to work for a municipality. It just depends what you're looking for.
 
My take maybe unique. But as a military officer, I don't get the protection of a union, even though I work inside government.

In my experience (at the federal level), I have found that unions can go both ways. You have ones like CAPE or PIPSC. Which you almost never hear about. Professionals, decently paid, almost never have any complaints. Negotations almost always go well. It's almost surprising if they strike in a decade. Then you have odd beasts like CUPE, where a policy analyst advising cabinet is in the same unit as the secretary of some middle level manager. You have secretaries/AAs who make nearly 50k a year in the federal public service, a situation that would not be very common in the private sector. The policy analysts I worked with resented being lumped in with this crowd and having to go on strike for them. Indeed, they actually tried to get their own designation and break off from CUPE after one strike, because they didn't feel they had any common grievances with the AAs. In that case, CUPE actually petitioned the government against these employees getting their own designation...they were after all the halo group of employees who were vital bargaining chips for CUPE.

I wonder if similar situations exist in the provincial and municipal civil services.

I think these are the situations that grate on the public. Nobody begrudges a city engineer or accountant making six figures. But I think the public does have issues with say an AA making significantly more than they would in the private sector.

The other issue in the long run that has to be addresses between public and private is pensions. The public sector has them as universal. The private sector...you're lucky if you can get a pension these days. This has to be addressed.
 
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City must make cuts downtown: Mammoliti
DAVID NICKLE
August 12, 2011

North York councillor Giorgio Mammoliti says he's heard enough from the public to know where the cuts should come when the city sets about balancing its 2012 budget.

And it's pretty straightforward. In two words: downtown Toronto.

"This whole budget - the whole core services review - has been an eye-opener to a lot of us," said Mammoliti.

"There's a possibility we could find the savings we need in the downtown core and bring the levels of service up in the suburbs. This core service review has told me I was right - there's a lot of money being spent in the downtown core and perhaps we need to bring the services in the suburbs up to par. Libaries is one place we can do that."

Mammoliti made the comments after he shut down a Facebook page, just up for a few days, inviting "average" Torontonians to weigh in on the city's Core Services Review.

Mammoliti made headlines saying he would make sure that so-called "communists" - defined by him as downtown Toronto residents who were not adequately employed, and who wanted the city to give them money - weren't invited.

But even without the communist influence, Mammoliti said that many of the participants felt that some of the recommendations put forward in the review by KPMG weren't on.

In particular, he said residents didn't want to see their libraries closed.

"Not everyone agrees that we need to shut down libraries," he said. "I think we need to look at efficiencies, how to save money, and continue with some of the service cuts we're suggesting but in an efficient way."

Mammoliti said he interpreted that to mean that cutting libraries - or indeed any services - in the old suburban cities of North York, Scarborough and Etobicoke shouldn't be contemplated.

But the downtown core, he said, could stand to see some significant cuts, particularly when it comes to library branches.

"I think amalgamating libraries is something that we should be looking at," he said.

"There are libraries in certain pockets of the city where there may be three or four of them within walking distance. We should be looking at amalgamating and looking at making one larger."

Mammoliti argued that it made sense to remove those and other services from downtown Toronto residents to free up cash to improve services in wards such as his own, in northwestern North York.

"It seems that in the downtown their wish list has always come through for them - and our wish list in other parts of the city is still a wish list."

Mammoliti's idea didn't go over well with some councillors.

Beaches-East York Councillor Janet Davis sits on the Toronto Public Library Board. She said that Mammoliti's premise that the suburbs have been under-represented in past budgets is simply false.

"He is so far off the mark on that," she said. "Since 2006 when we began to implement the Strong Neighbourhoods Task Force recommendations, we have invested more capital in the priority neighbourhoods and areas outside the downtown than ever before. He's completely wrong."

She said that Mammoliti is simply seeking to widen the suburban/urban divide in Toronto.

"We don't build a healthy city by pitting one area against the other, and Giorgio is not showing leadership by doing that," she said.

"We need to build in those areas that have been historically under-serviced over time. Not setting up downtown versus the suburbs. It's counterproductive, it's polarizing and it's just bad politics."

Shelley Carroll, who represents suburban ward of Ward 33 Don Valley East, said a policy like that would be a fast road to a city with a hollowed-out downtown core such as Detroit.

"If you just strip the downtown to create glowing suburbs you get crazy things," she said. "Shut down the schools rather than fix whatever's sick inside them? Put kids on buses? Then you end up with a dead downtown."

http://www.insidetoronto.com/news/cityhall/article/1056706--city-must-make-cuts-downtown-mammoliti

Indications of what's to come? Or just more ranting from Mammo?
 
Who wouldn't ... but does such a job actually exist, or is it another ultra-right-wing lie?
$52 is probably the full cost of the person, with wages and everything else they cost included. It's a misleading way to present a person's wage, but it is true that two people doing the same job and getting say, $24 an hour can cost a completely different amount to their employer. Not only do public sector employees get paid the same or more per hour, they have a level of job security, benefits and pensions that private sector workers usually don't.

It used to be that government workers would be paid at market level or a touch below, with job security or benefits making up for the wage difference. Public sector unions have done a great job of winning ever increasing benefits for their employees, to the point that what they've won for their membership needs to be pared back a little, to bring them more in line with the private sector workers whose taxes pay their salaries and benefits.

This is what kEiThZ was getting at and he's right.
 
Not only do public sector employees get paid the same or more per hour, they have a level of job security, benefits and pensions that private sector workers usually don't.
What is this job security that public sector employees have? We are talking about mass layoffs ... with 6-months severance - the same maximum that any worker gets.
 
City must make cuts downtown: Mammoliti
DAVID NICKLE
August 12, 2011

North York councillor Giorgio Mammoliti says he's heard enough from the public to know where the cuts should come when the city sets about balancing its 2012 budget.

And it's pretty straightforward. In two words: downtown Toronto.

"This whole budget - the whole core services review - has been an eye-opener to a lot of us," said Mammoliti.

"There's a possibility we could find the savings we need in the downtown core and bring the levels of service up in the suburbs. This core service review has told me I was right - there's a lot of money being spent in the downtown core and perhaps we need to bring the services in the suburbs up to par. Libaries is one place we can do that."

Mammoliti made the comments after he shut down a Facebook page, just up for a few days, inviting "average" Torontonians to weigh in on the city's Core Services Review.

Mammoliti made headlines saying he would make sure that so-called "communists" - defined by him as downtown Toronto residents who were not adequately employed, and who wanted the city to give them money - weren't invited.

But even without the communist influence, Mammoliti said that many of the participants felt that some of the recommendations put forward in the review by KPMG weren't on.

In particular, he said residents didn't want to see their libraries closed.

"Not everyone agrees that we need to shut down libraries," he said. "I think we need to look at efficiencies, how to save money, and continue with some of the service cuts we're suggesting but in an efficient way."

Mammoliti said he interpreted that to mean that cutting libraries - or indeed any services - in the old suburban cities of North York, Scarborough and Etobicoke shouldn't be contemplated.

But the downtown core, he said, could stand to see some significant cuts, particularly when it comes to library branches.

"I think amalgamating libraries is something that we should be looking at," he said.

"There are libraries in certain pockets of the city where there may be three or four of them within walking distance. We should be looking at amalgamating and looking at making one larger."

Mammoliti argued that it made sense to remove those and other services from downtown Toronto residents to free up cash to improve services in wards such as his own, in northwestern North York.

"It seems that in the downtown their wish list has always come through for them - and our wish list in other parts of the city is still a wish list."

Mammoliti's idea didn't go over well with some councillors.

Beaches-East York Councillor Janet Davis sits on the Toronto Public Library Board. She said that Mammoliti's premise that the suburbs have been under-represented in past budgets is simply false.

"He is so far off the mark on that," she said. "Since 2006 when we began to implement the Strong Neighbourhoods Task Force recommendations, we have invested more capital in the priority neighbourhoods and areas outside the downtown than ever before. He's completely wrong."

She said that Mammoliti is simply seeking to widen the suburban/urban divide in Toronto.

"We don't build a healthy city by pitting one area against the other, and Giorgio is not showing leadership by doing that," she said.

"We need to build in those areas that have been historically under-serviced over time. Not setting up downtown versus the suburbs. It's counterproductive, it's polarizing and it's just bad politics."

Shelley Carroll, who represents suburban ward of Ward 33 Don Valley East, said a policy like that would be a fast road to a city with a hollowed-out downtown core such as Detroit.

"If you just strip the downtown to create glowing suburbs you get crazy things," she said. "Shut down the schools rather than fix whatever's sick inside them? Put kids on buses? Then you end up with a dead downtown."

http://www.insidetoronto.com/news/cityhall/article/1056706--city-must-make-cuts-downtown-mammoliti

Indications of what's to come? Or just more ranting from Mammo?

Perhaps if they looked at establishing efficiencies in suburban design they could have more libraries in walking distance too.

This kind of divisive nonsense is exactly what the city doesn't need. Wasn't this guy on Miller's executive council?
 
What is this job security that public sector employees have? We are talking about mass layoffs ... with 6-months severance - the same maximum that any worker gets.
I have been laid off 2x in the private sector with either operations closing down or shifting to the U.S. In both vases I received 4 weeks for every year of service. In the first case I was there for 8 years so received 32 weeks pay and benefits for the 32 weeks. In the second case I was there for 4 years and again received 4 weeks for every year of service, And since I chose to take it not as a lump sum I got paid an additional 4 weeks for a total of 20 weeks including benefits for the 20 weeks. Plus I got an additional 12 weeks of service for staying till the end instead of quitting. So a 6-month limit on severance pay for city employees sucks. Who would be crazy to accept it innless you only have 6 months to retire. Which is why Ford is threatening if employees don't take it there will be layoffs. And for him to say this offer is not given on the private sector he is right – it is better in the private sector.
 
"There are libraries in certain pockets of the city where there may be three or four of them within walking distance.

Everything is within walking distance downtown. That's why you live downtown. It's a different culture. They may be within walking distance, but serve greater populations. One library has already been closed downtown.

I made this comment in another thread recently. The claim that no money is being spent in the suburbs is a total falsehood. I live in lower Scarborough (near Brimley at St. Clair). In my area I have seen watermain replacement and road resurfacings during the last couple years. McCowan below Eglinton is being resurfaced right this week. Toronto Hydro has been up and down the street for a couple months now restringing new poles (for what reason I haven't been able to determine). There is a Toronto employment counselling office that has opened in the last year in Cliffcrest Mall (Kingston at McCowan), and a health services/Tamil community centre opened in a strip mall at Brimley and Eglinton. There is long term erosion protection being constructed below the Bluffs. There's a children's splashpad being built in a small neighbourhood park overlooking Bluffer's Park. There were also plans to pave the paths above the Bluffs to extend the Waterfront Trail for bicycles, but this was opposed by the neighbours, and sent back for reconsideration at the request of local Councillor Crawford during the bike plan debates. Maybe less gets done in the suburbs because the neighbours are so quick to oppose anything that might serve people from away or bring them into the neighbourhood. I drove east today. Lawrence past Kingston Rd is in beautiful shape, recently resurfaced. I stopped in a newish park at the bottom of Port Union Rd. It was about as designy as the new downtown parks, with a little concrete stream flowing onto a splashpad, and the washroom building built from carefully angled rough timbers. I think there's money being spent along the waterfront there all the way to Pickering. When I'm in other distant parts of the city I see work being done. Is that huge flagpole still being erected? That's even disregarding the reality that the suburbs are just more expensive to service, due to their poor design and lack of density.
 
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It was a pretty foolish way for Mammolitti to take the discussion even further into that us-vs-them territory - but in terms of raw numbers of voters - it won't hurt him in any way and only make him even stronger within his ward. Like it or not, amalgamation gave equal voting power to everyone in the 416 and after Miller's term in office, this part of the constituency was simply feeling ignored.

I think everyone knows that downtown has different needs and rightfully requires a slightly higher ratio of dollars compared to the burbs, but the way Miller ran things certainly did appear dismissive to the burbs and biased towards the core, so this is happening in part because of him. Whether that is true or not in terms of dollars is unfortunately not going to make a difference at this point.
 
It was a pretty foolish way for Mammolitti to take the discussion even further into that us-vs-them territory - but in terms of raw numbers of voters - it won't hurt him in any way and only make him even stronger within his ward. Like it or not, amalgamation gave equal voting power to everyone in the 416 and after Miller's term in office, this part of the constituency was simply feeling ignored.

I think everyone knows that downtown has different needs and rightfully requires a slightly higher ratio of dollars compared to the burbs, but the way Miller ran things certainly did appear dismissive to the burbs and biased towards the core, so this is happening in part because of him. Whether that is true or not in terms of dollars is unfortunately not going to make a difference at this point.

If there is proof that downtown receives a greater share of City spending I would sure like to see it. It seems to me that the exact opposite is true.

The TTC historically broke even until the province mandated surburban expansion in the 50s and 60s and offered a transit subsidy to pay for this unprofitable move. Last year, the subsidy was half a billion dollars (billion with a B), now paid with property taxes thanks to the province, which stopped paying in the late 90s. The biggest capital spending is for further TTC expansion into the suburbs, which will also no doubt increase the need for the subsidy.

Meanwhile, the biggest operational expense is the police, which includes highly labour-intensive TAVIS policing, which is deployed almost entirely in the suburbs. In addition, every single high-priority neighborhood, designated for increased investment and spending, is in the suburbs.

Finally, I cannot imagine how downtown Toronto, with its wealthy and dense properties and tax base, could cost more to service than the less dense suburbs. City costs are a function of area or length, but property taxes and transit revenues are a function of density.

In 2006, Michelle Berardinetti ran a campaign based on her belief that the suburbs were being shortchanged by downtowners. A staff report showed that this was complete baloney. Similarly, I strongly suspect Mammoliti is once again talking out of his formidable ass.
 
In 2006, Michelle Berardinetti ran a campaign based on her belief that the suburbs were being shortchanged by downtowners. A staff report showed that this was complete baloney. Similarly, I strongly suspect Mammoliti is once again talking out of his formidable ass.

Any idea where this staff report might be? I'm interested in reading it. My request to the City for aggregated property tax revenue data by Census Tract or Forward Sorting Area has hit a dead end.
 
Any idea where this staff report might be? I'm interested in reading it. My request to the City for aggregated property tax revenue data by Census Tract or Forward Sorting Area has hit a dead end.

Wikipedia cites a Globe article by Jennifer Lewington: "Fresh faces abound in wild, wild east: Four wards have no incumbent running" -- dated November 10, 2006, pg A14. The article may not necessarily refer to a specific staff report, but quotes City staff who said "In 2005, Scarborough accounted for 24% of the road repair budget which was commensurate with its population." Candidate Berardinetti had claimed "a lot of our property tax dollars are being spent downtown and not here. A road downtown will get paved two or three times before one is paved out here."

Here's the full paragraph from Wikipedia:

In 2006, she ran for City Councillor in the riding of Scarborough Southwest. She ran on a campaign of making sure that Scarborough got its "fair share" of tax dollars. She said, "A lot of our property tax dollars are being spent downtown and not here." She declared, "a road downtown will get paved two or three times before one is paved out here." City officials pointed out that this was not true, that road maintenance was based on need not location. In 2005, Scarborough accounted for 24% of the road repair budget which was commensurate with its population.[3] She narrowly lost by 89 votes.

The rate and intensity of infrastructure usage could explain how downtown infrastructure might cost more to maintain than similar infrastructure in the suburbs. However, if the staffer quoted in 2006 is correct, even in this area the downtown evidently does not receive a greater share of the funds (at least for roadwork), and in any case, I suspect downtown roads are not being used exclusively by downtowners.
 
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