Rob Ford's Toronto

[nfitz]

I don't see nothing wrong with cutting most sidewalk plowing. Some parts of Toronto have never had sidewalk plowing, except along the edge of city property, or major arteries; certainly not on sidestreets.

Why should folks on suburban streets in North York, Etobicoke, and Scarborough get their sidewalks plowed, and be paying the same taxes as those who have to shovel them, themselves.

I'm happy to see that Ford is going to make his constituents in Etobicoke shovelling the snow. Perhaps it will get some of them much needed exercise.

 

[archanfel]

you know, it's the very communists you dislike that sometimes don't allow large numbers of people to take to the streets for a cause. i guess the roads are for tanks.


archanfel, just a question, are you going to hang around this forum once the election is over? i ask that because all your posts are within a few threads on this board that deal with rob ford, the next mayor & taxes.

I remember large numbers of people was boxed in by police in certain city recently. Sure, they didn't use tanks, they got sound cannons.

And China hasn't been a communist country for a very long time.

 

[archanfel]

By 'the communists', I assume you're referring to the USSR. That's not why they fell apart.

No, I am referring to all of them. And no, I didn't mean they fell apart. Their economy crumbled long before their countries dissolved. I see communism as an economic model rather than a political model. A democratic country can embrace communism too. The core of communism is not dictatorship, rather it's believing the country can control the economy more efficiently than the market. Yes, it tends to leads to dictatorship on the political front as well, but western countries have been adopting communist ideas for a long time.

 

[archanfel]

You're gasping at straws. Demonstrate how your statement has any relevance to what I said without re-posting platitudes you found on some cool right-wing blog.

I didn't think explanations were needed. You were proposing forcing people to donate/participate via taxes, no? Therefore you were taking away people's choice to donate to other causes, no? And I am assuming you believe it's for a common good, no?

 

[archanfel]

^ That's a very reasonable picture of this city under Rob Ford.

The problem is that's not what we need. If Ford just wants to pick up garbage, ensure roads are well kept and traffic light bulbs are replaced, he can't handle the complexity of a major city and needs to run for Mayor of Keswick.

The Culture & the Arts create jobs and attract and encourage people to spend money in the city, which stimulates the economy and allows the city to grow. The same can be said for a city that leads in the environmental field, in medicine, in the creative industry and so on. A city that inspires is a city that remains alive.

Nothing stands still. It's the direction that we need to need to get right.

If the garbage are not picked up, roads are not well kept and traffic light bulbs are not replaced, I am afraid that culture and arts are not going to help us. When were the last time you heard about a major company moving to a city for its culture and arts?

 

[archanfel]

Except that this doesn't jive with what is currently being written in many media publications about his proposed reduction of city staff through attrition.

If ~50% of city staff are on provincially mandated operations (police, fire, public health, etc) and have legally defined minimum levels of staffing, he's going to have to get his staffing reductions from the remaining 50%, which would presumably include things like garbage collection, snow removal and road repair.

How, exactly, do you think we'll have better operations for any of those aspects if their workforce is being cut by 6% a year? (6% because they have to compensate for the 50% of the workforce that isn't contributing his proposed 3% annual reduction.)

Even if he keeps TTC staffing constant, the continued increase in ridership will only exacerbate problems with poor service and over crowding.

If you believe TTC's number, ridership went up by 2% each year over the last 8 years. Given what I heard about TTC, they can squeeze out 8-10% productivity increase over 4 years.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

I remember large numbers of people was boxed in by police in certain city recently. Sure, they didn't use tanks, they got sound cannons.

And China hasn't been a communist country for a very long time.

i don't understand you. so having a marathon (lots of people on the street) for common good is a communist action and at the same time not allowing a demonstration march (lots of people on the street) is a communist action?

and what makes you think i'm talking about china?

 

[Glen]

^ That's a very reasonable picture of this city under Rob Ford.

The problem is that's not what we need. If Ford just wants to pick up garbage, ensure roads are well kept and traffic light bulbs are replaced, he can't handle the complexity of a major city and needs to run for Mayor of Keswick.

The Culture & the Arts create jobs and attract and encourage people to spend money in the city, which stimulates the economy and allows the city to grow. The same can be said for a city that leads in the environmental field, in medicine, in the creative industry and so on. A city that inspires is a city that remains alive.

Nothing stands still. It's the direction that we need to need to get right.

By what measure are you judging Toronto's success today? Employment, income, income disparity, opportunity, how many condos are being developed?

 

[Asterix]

If you believe TTC's number, ridership went up by 2% each year over the last 8 years. Given what I heard about TTC, they can squeeze out 8-10% productivity increase over 4 years.

Just curious if you have specifics on to how that productivity can be increased, especially to that extent.

The number of hours overall and number of continuous hours an operator can work are governed by provincial legislation. We can't make a driver drive 9 hours instead of 8 for example.

If a bus/streetcar/subway line is already hitting maximum capacity in peak times, how do you make it more productive, especially if you have no more buses/streetcars/subway trains (or operators) available to handle the load?

 

[nfitz]

By what measure are you judging Toronto's success today? Employment, income, income disparity, opportunity, how many condos are being developed?

There are other factors ... such as all the new office space being constructed; perhaps an indicator that commercial taxes downtown are too low.

 

[archanfel]

Just curious if you have specifics on to how that productivity can be increased, especially to that extent.

The number of hours overall and number of continuous hours an operator can work are governed by provincial legislation. We can't make a driver drive 9 hours instead of 8 for example.

If a bus/streetcar/subway line is already hitting maximum capacity in peak times, how do you make it more productive, especially if you have no more buses/streetcars/subway trains (or operators) available to handle the load?

There are lots of ways. Cut all kinds of maintenance workers. Cut drivers' pay. Hire lower cost drivers. Require drivers to keep the cars clean. Cut non-peak time services. Cut certain routes. Contract out all the routes that has a taker.

 

[lafard]

ok so you're basically saying that he'll cut everything? Does that really sound reasonable to you?

As reasonable as anything else to come out of his mouth.

If the garbage are not picked up, roads are not well kept and traffic light bulbs are not replaced, I am afraid that culture and arts are not going to help us. When were the last time you heard about a major company moving to a city for its culture and arts?

The garbage IS being picked up, the roads are being rebuilt at an astounding rate and the traffic lights are all LEDs now anyways. Toronto's essential services are running just fine. The problem is that updating our often neglected infrastructure requires pouring "gravy" on it. Why are water rates going up? To pay for fixing pipes that are in many cases half a century beyond their design life. Gravy. Fordites don't get that.

The companies might not move for culture and arts directly, but there is a very strong correlation between a city's ability to attract talented workers and the prosperity of the companies that cannot be overlooked. You could turn Toronto into Mississauga, the civic side of things would run just fine and the young families would be happy, but do you honestly think that if Toronto beecame a giant Mississauga it would still attract a large inflow of young, talented people from across the country? Of course not. It becomes Edmonton. Decent enough, but nobody with a choice really wants to actually live there.

 

[Gavin]

When were the last time you heard about a major company moving to a city for its culture and arts?

Companies don't move because of it, the workforce does. The companies then follow the talent.

 

[Glen]

There are other factors ... such as all the new office space being constructed; perhaps an indicator that commercial taxes downtown are too low.

Clearly with that, we have established that you equate successes with big and shiny.

 

[Asterix]

There are lots of ways. Cut all kinds of maintenance workers.

You mean the maintenance workers that recent customer service surveys say are woefully understaffed and not able to keep up with the workload (cleaning stations, repairing leaks, broken lights, broken tiles)?

Cut drivers' pay.

Which would entail overhauling the union contract. Sure, it might make sense to cut pay, but it certainly isn't going to happen by some mayor arbitrarily dictating it. How much of a fight do you think patrons are willing to put up with before they demand the province legislate them back to work and impose arbitration (not too likely to end up reducing current pay levels)?

Hire lower cost drivers.

Again, see the union contract. Is there an excess of applicants for driver positions such that you will still have enough applicants if you offer lower salaries?

Require drivers to keep the cars clean.

Is that part of their contract? Do they currently have the available time to do cleaning tasks or would it be preferable to have drivers spending their time driving and use lower salaried employees to do more menial tasks like cleaning?

Cut non-peak time services.

You mean remove an incentive for people to take transit (knowing that they will always be able to catch a bus within a reasonable time? If you scare them off, wouldn't they be more likely to take their car more often, even during more peak times, is that a good thing for the bigger picture of moving the city?

Cut certain routes.

Same with cutting non-peak service. They already did this with the Harris cuts and lost a lot of riders that didn't come back until they recently increased service. Cause and effect.

Contract out all the routes that has a taker.

Why would any private operation be interested in any route that is not a clear, easy sailing money maker? How would contracting out routes that are profitable for the TTC help improve productivity for the remaining routes that are loss leaders?