Rob Ford's Toronto

[TonyV]

Brian Burke for mayor.

 

[Tulse]

The thing that is most absurd about today's event is that it was a proclamation literally by Rob Ford that he was too cowardly to do in person. If he's against Pride Week, he should at least have the courage not to offer a proclamation, and if he going to offer a proclamation, he should be the one to show up and do the actual proclaiming. Having someone else read out your proclamation because you don't like the issue is sheer cowardice.

 

[Ak2809]

I don't see this. I've worked in similar workplaces ... I saw a Rumanian once launch a bigoted tirade about another ethnic group from his country ... but nothing else jumps to mind in the last decade or two. I've heard some class-based stuff ... but given the targets were from all races, it really wasn't racial/ethnic/gender. Yes, I guess it still seems okay to bash male and females ... not sure why. But other than that.

If you are aware of real bigotry, and failing to report it to the authorities at your place of employment, then you are part of the problem.

Oh boy. You may lead a sheltered life and not see it, but I assure you there is a lot of hidden racism out there unfortunately.

 

[christiesplits]

As a gay male I am not particularly offended by Ford's absence from the parade. I am offended by his absence from ANY of the week activities. Dropping by to visit an LGBTQ family picnic? Networking with non profits at booths representing various queer outreach organizations, including those in the nether regions of Scarborough and North Etobicoke?

Ford panders to communities in Toronto 1/30th the size of the LGBTQ community. Something doesn't smell right.

 

[nfitz]

You may lead a sheltered life and not see it, but I assure you there is a lot of hidden racism out there unfortunately.

Oh, I'm sure there is still some backwards people out there ...

I don't know if my life is anymore sheltered than any one else's. It's not the kind of thing one brings into the workplace though, is it. Firing offence for most companies (perhaps with the exception of label printing firms ... ). So I'd think if one is racist, one is not going to reveal anything unless one knew someone else was racist. Not being racist, perhaps those who are, don't share their opinions with me. Perhaps others are in a different situation.

Ford panders to communities in Toronto 1/30th the size of the LGBTQ community. Something doesn't smell right.

Indeed ... seems to be something other than just prejudice or discomfort. There's a deeper story here ... not sure what it is though. Sometime these things are driven by religion; but other members of his family aren't reacting like this.

 

[adma]

Originally Posted by Filip
So if our mothers have right-leaning political views we should kill them or shun them from our lives?

Good to know you've reinforced my opinions of you. You're a creep.

Yeah, I agree with you. His post was a new low for this board. He's a douche.

He's also creep because he decided to make a reference to my mother and lump her in with the Archie Bunker category which was an intentional insult, knowing nothing about my mother besides that she had rules and didn't tolerate nonsense while raising me. You know what? She had rules and was tough but she also had gay friends and never once made a negative comment about any ethnic/racial group.

I said it before, I'll say it again. People who considered in any way conservative or old fashioned get treated like shit on this board and elsewhere.

However, you conveniently overlooked the context in which I framed said "matricide"; which is not only in terms of conservatixm, but also in terms of dimwitted philistinism. Y'know, being a patsy to the smooth-talking aluminum siding or home-reno huckster. Not that your mother *was* like that...but, tkip, you never seem to address the culture/taste issue in my barbs. Indeed, the way you talk about and defend your mother, I get very little sense of a household with much "cultural" going on.

Though it does bring to mind something else recently from the "Miscellany" photo thread...

Before.

After.

Now, politically speaking, that can be spun two ways. One might be the "there goes the neighbourhood" trip espoused by neighbourhood activists (NIMBY or not), heritage activists and advocates of "urban sensitivity", whether Jane Jacobite or not. They'd advocate voting to prevent more like that. And then there'd be the "property rights" advocates who'd advocate voting *against* those meddlesome NIMBYs and hysterical-preservationists...for whom a Mayor Ford is the cat's pyjamas.

Honestly, I don't get the latter bunch. They seem narcissistic, piggish, and as overwrought as a stripper's silicone implants. And in urban terms, they are, to me, metaphorically equivalent to the bad-apples-raised-in-dysfunctional-households which tkip contrasts his own solid upbringing to.

Yet, let me say this...this is where "taste matters". Like, if you're from an otherwise-loving household with negligible taste and culture, you're more likely to commit that kind of a teardown. And as far as I'm concerned, that pretty well renders the "functional upbringing" all for naught.

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

Today's flag raising and the Mayors Official Proclamation, absent a Mayor, caused a ruckus. Video coverage at the bottom of the story

 

[Electrify]

And of course, this attempt to play down immigrants' votes for Ford hinges on them being ignorant. The same old, tired attacks by those against Ford. He only won because a bunch of dumb simpletons from backwards countries with outdated cultural attitudes voted him into power. This person's post on immigrants is highly offensive.

Please don't put so many words into my mouth. All I was trying to do was paint a portrait of a Ford supporter, and that it does most likely differ from what many in the city think. I never explicitly said they were wrong to vote for him, but that they may have been misinformed by the right winged media and short soundbytes. I might agree that their vote was based more on ignorance, but that ignorance comes from not doing all of the research they should have before going to the polls, not due to the willful ignorance which seems to be the current trend amongst the most far right.

 

[tkip]

However, you conveniently overlooked the context in which I framed said "matricide"; which is not only in terms of conservatixm, but also in terms of dimwitted philistinism. Y'know, being a patsy to the smooth-talking aluminum siding or home-reno huckster. Not that your mother *was* like that...but, tkip, you never seem to address the culture/taste issue in my barbs. Indeed, the way you talk about and defend your mother, I get very little sense of a household with much "cultural" going on.

Though it does bring to mind something else recently from the "Miscellany" photo thread...

Before.

After.

Now, politically speaking, that can be spun two ways. One might be the "there goes the neighbourhood" trip espoused by neighbourhood activists (NIMBY or not), heritage activists and advocates of "urban sensitivity", whether Jane Jacobite or not. They'd advocate voting to prevent more like that. And then there'd be the "property rights" advocates who'd advocate voting *against* those meddlesome NIMBYs and hysterical-preservationists...for whom a Mayor Ford is the cat's pyjamas.

Honestly, I don't get the latter bunch. They seem narcissistic, piggish, and as overwrought as a stripper's silicone implants. And in urban terms, they are, to me, metaphorically equivalent to the bad-apples-raised-in-dysfunctional-households which tkip contrasts his own solid upbringing to.

Yet, let me say this...this is where "taste matters". Like, if you're from an otherwise-loving household with negligible taste and culture, you're more likely to commit that kind of a teardown. And as far as I'm concerned, that pretty well renders the "functional upbringing" all for naught.

There you go again with insults that you pretend aren't insults. Now referring to my household as not being very "cultural" because I defended my mother?! You put my mother in the same category as Archie Bunker and I was suppose to overlook this and see the greater context? I didn't misinterpret anything. Your intention was to offend.

 

[tkip]

Oh boy. You may lead a sheltered life and not see it, but I assure you there is a lot of hidden racism out there unfortunately.

What I said earlier.

Below the surface in our supposedly progressive society is a massive undercurrent of racist/sexist attitudes and views. Look, this is basic human behavior. You can't change it. It's part of every culture, every society, every group of people on the planet regardless of your background. As I said before, it's all been driven underground now. People are faking a lot of their understanding and playing nice.

We haven't changed at all. We just learned to hide it better.

 

[tkip]

Okay, so you're toeing the "Ford is not homophobic" line -- how do you explain his reluctance to attend not just the parade but also Pride events that literally take place within the building where he works? Is it your opinion that his lack of attendance is the result of a series of madcap coincidences and scheduling problems?

I'm taking it as he feels uncomfortable which is not the same as disliking.

I'm not saying he should avoid the entire week, but people are projecting them wanting Ford to be a bigot to justify their hate of the man. That's my interpretation of this whole affair. Lots of politicians fake it to get the votes. Maybe Ford doesn't want to play this game. He's never been a subtle guy. But I'm speculating.

I think he'd rather not being around a bunch of gay people the same reason many of us would feel uncomfortable being around any group we couldn't identify with.

 

[nfitz]

You can't change it. It's part of every culture, every society, every group of people on the planet regardless of your background.

Bullshit. Many, if most people aren't racist or sexist.

I find this a shocking and disgusting attempt to justify discrimination.

 

[GenerationW]

What I said earlier.

Below the surface in our supposedly progressive society is a massive undercurrent of racist/sexist attitudes and views. Look, this is basic human behavior. You can't change it. It's part of every culture, every society, every group of people on the planet regardless of your background. As I said before, it's all been driven underground now. People are faking a lot of their understanding and playing nice.

We haven't changed at all. We just learned to hide it better.

People -- they're the worst!

 

[Tulse]

I'm taking it as he feels uncomfortable which is not the same as disliking.

[...]

I think he'd rather not being around a bunch of gay people the same reason many of us would feel uncomfortable being around any group we couldn't identify with.

Right, so if Ford had had this reaction around Caribana, it wouldn't have been appropriate to call him racist -- he would just be "uncomfortable" around black people.

The man is a 42-year-old adult, has been in politics for years, and is the mayor of a city of millions. Not showing up to read a proclamation for two minutes from a podium well back from a small group at city hall is well beyond being "uncomfortable around" gay and lesbian people. And frankly, I don't care how "uncomfortable" he is -- if he is going to offer official city support for an event (which a proclamation is), he should be brave enough to act like it doesn't make him uncomfortable for the two minutes it takes to proclaim it. He's the goddamned leader of the city, and he should act like a leader, and not like he's afraid he'll get cooties if he even says "gay".

 

[adma]

There you go again with insults that you pretend aren't insults. Now referring to my household as not being very "cultural" because I defended my mother?! You put my mother in the same category as Archie Bunker and I was suppose to overlook this and see the greater context? I didn't misinterpret anything. Your intention was to offend.

It isn't because you're defending your mother. It's because you're uncritically defending your mother. And you refuse to answer the "cultural question", my particular kind of "cultural question", which has less to do with "Archie Bunker" per se, than with philistinism. Pure and simple.