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Rob Ford's Toronto

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You quoted me saying that Layton was found in an illicit massage parlor and then posted something like "its true if you repeat it enough". I'm not sure how that constitutes agreeing with me rather than accusing me of propping up a lie.
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No, I quoted your equation of crack smoking to getting a massage...read back a few pages instead of making things up.

I'm guessing is because your command of the language and comprehension skills aren't that great.

If Layton wants to get handies or Ford wants to smoke crack, I really could care less.
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I personally do not care about the Layton controversy one iota.
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...yet, you continue to post about it...strange.
 
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There is also a crucial difference between the Rob Ford and Jack Layton scenarios (beyond the repeatability aspect, which has already been mentioned) - the former has associations with the individuals with criminal involvement around the drug trade; there is absolutely no evidence of Layton's involvement with the operators of the parlour, other than being the recipient of a hand job. That's a very important distinction.

AoD
 
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CowboyLogic said:
First of all, police did not concede that they didn't have enough evidence to charge Layton. The article makes it clear that they chose not to pursue charges against him.

I truly do not understand the hypocrisy in ridiculing Ford supporters for ignoring or denying the crack allegations while simultaneously ignoring and denying the Layton massage allegations. I think you really have to go to the depths of the most pro-Ford logic to deny or even question that Layton was being serviced.

People are willing to believe that Ford smoked crack based on the allegations of three reporters from two publications. That's the proof, and it is sufficient. However, there's equally enough proof that Layton was being serviced in this shiatsu massage parlor.

1) We have the officer's police notes, which detail the entire incident and Layton's responses to his questions. Layton was completely nude on the massage table, flustered, and the Asian lady massaging him disposed of wet kleenex.
2) Layton himself admits he was in this illicit massage parlor, which was under investigation for sex trafficking.
3) Layton didn't deny any of the report or explain the specifics, such as why he was naked.
4) Layton said he simply did not know this was a bawdy house, which is either untrue or an extreme knock against his intelligence (its not exactly hard to differentiate between a reputable massage parlor and a "shiatsu" massage parlor).

Denying that Layton was getting serviced is like saying Ford was smoking sugar out of the crack pipe. All reasonable evidence points towards Layton being serviced, and you really have to dive into the depths of partisanship and anti-logic to deny it.
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Please stop. I think I speak for most of us here when I say that I really don't need to you describe rub and tugs in any more detail.
 
I think the one thing we can conclude is that CowboyLogic is one of those dudes that keeps his bathing suit on when he gets a massage at the spa.
 
typezed said:
This is good:

https://www.facebook.com/notes/jude-macdonald/concern-raised-by-residents-friday-night-regarding-mayors-actions-not-adequately/10151501619666710

Concern raised by residents Friday night regarding Mayor's actions not adequately addressed
14 August 2013 at 13:31
Dear Councillor:

I am writing you – ccing the City Clerk, the Mayor's Office and the Integrity Commissioner – regarding the situation that arose Friday night, when Mayor Rob Ford attended the Taste of the Danforth in his capacity as CEO of the City of Toronto.

[blah blah blah]

If he can account for his time after parking, explaining where he went and what, specifically, he imbibed, the time is overdue for him to formally and publicly inform the City and its residents. I do hope that the need to have this dealt with in a professional, non-partisan and fair way is addressed within the official City framework, and by other members of Council, if the Mayor is not prepared to respond as the situation demands.


Thank you for your consideration,


Jude MacDonald
resident, Toronto Centre
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What self-indulgent bullshit. Opponents of Ford could much more usefully spend their time lobbying the Premier to enact recall legislation, than expressing their sanctimonious outrage about our Mayor's latest screw up. Ford-hating is turning into a co-dependent relationship, I think.
 
Marko said:
Police saying they have "a lack of evidence to proceed" is EXACTLY what they say when they wish to protect someone who is publicly known. It's the easiest and most convenient way to quietly sweep something under the rug.
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Agreed. But given that the Toronto police hated Layton and the attempts by him and his left-wing city council cohorts to govern the Toronto police, one would think they would have charged him if they could have. One doesn't get the same impression (to say the least) about the TPS's treatment of Rob Ford.

In fact, it's probably worth looking at Layton's record/statements on police governance issues before and after the massage parlour incident to see whether everyone acted according to script. For example, did Layton back off the police? If so, then it is both evidence that he was caught receiving sexual services AND that at least some of my respect for his integrity was misplaced.
 
CowboyLogic said:
First of all, police did not concede that they didn't have enough evidence to charge Layton. The article makes it clear that they chose not to pursue charges against him.

I truly do not understand the hypocrisy in ridiculing Ford supporters for ignoring or denying the crack allegations while simultaneously ignoring and denying the Layton massage allegations. I think you really have to go to the depths of the most pro-Ford logic to deny or even question that Layton was being serviced.

People are willing to believe that Ford smoked crack based on the allegations of three reporters from two publications. That's the proof, and it is sufficient. However, there's equally enough proof that Layton was being serviced in this shiatsu massage parlor.

1) We have the officer's police notes, which detail the entire incident and Layton's responses to his questions. Layton was completely nude on the massage table, flustered, and the Asian lady massaging him disposed of wet kleenex.
2) Layton himself admits he was in this illicit massage parlor, which was under investigation for sex trafficking.
3) Layton didn't deny any of the report or explain the specifics, such as why he was naked.
4) Layton said he simply did not know this was a bawdy house, which is either untrue or an extreme knock against his intelligence (its not exactly hard to differentiate between a reputable massage parlor and a "shiatsu" massage parlor).

Denying that Layton was getting serviced is like saying Ford was smoking sugar out of the crack pipe. All reasonable evidence points towards Layton being serviced, and you really have to dive into the depths of partisanship and anti-logic to deny it.
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I hate to burst your bubble, but there's a massage parlour in my old neighbourhood that I visited with relative frequency and received very high quality massages (and nothing else), sometimes from people who appeared to be recent immigrants. Some of the masseuses would sometimes complain about clients requesting sexual services. Later, I read in the paper that someone had been busted there for offences of a sexual nature, but I can assure you that, if it was a rub-n-tug, it was not strictly a rub-n-tug. The place Layton was in could have been more clear cut, but you're making it sound as if it is always clear-cut, which it is not.

Also, if your only source to "convict" Layton is a police notebook of a cop who (by virtue of his holding on to the notebook for years and then selectively and illegally leaking it at a politically opportune time) clearly had an axe to grind against Layton, then that's far, far below the word of two Toronto Star reporters. Again, Layton may or may not have done what he is accused of having done, but the available evidence is specious.

Now, to pre-empt your critique, please explain exactly why you believe my partisanship (as opposed to the observable facts) has caused me to reach the foregoing conclusions.
 
CowboyLogic said:
I'm not saying its OK to drink coffee that exploits people, just that there's a clear difference between drinking coffee and using a coerced sex worker.
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AoD's coffee analogy is a good one. You could extend that to so many things from diamonds, kid's toys, half of the clothing we wear, fruit & vegetables to our smart devices - all made or harvested by millions of exploited people (including children) who work in deplorable and dangerous conditions, are shockingly underpaid and work horrifically long hours with no protections by any labour laws. These are slaves. Not sex slaves, but slaves.

Edit: oops, just read Tulse's post
 
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k10ery said:
What self-indulgent bullshit. Opponents of Ford could much more usefully spend their time lobbying the Premier to enact recall legislation, than expressing their sanctimonious outrage about our Mayor's latest screw up. Ford-hating is turning into a co-dependent relationship, I think.
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He drove drunk.

To put this in a larger context, it is part of a pattern of:

Irresponsible Driving
1. like that time he was caught using a cellphone while driving and flipped off the woman who called him on it.
2. like that time he was photographed reading while driving
3. like that time he passed a TTC door and when criticized for it attempted to have TTC management censure the driver.

Drunken or High Appearances
1. The Garrison Ball
2. The Sarah Thomson episode
3. The 'Hey Orthodox Rabbis, Support My Casino Plans' Eruv celebration

To place it in a political context, as I did earlier, let me remind you that this man is openly hostile to any other forms of transport than the personal automobile. Some, like cycling, become much riskier activities when people are driving intoxicated or in other irresponsible, inattentive ways.

Should a Mayor be allowed to drive while intoxicated without having to answer questions from journalists, fellow civic leaders, law authorities? Shouldn't we as citizens expect those fellow politicians and law authorities to seek the truth when another leader is operating outside the boundaries of responsible behaviour? Should he be able to just walk away from another 'screw up'? I see nothing self-indulgent about wanting to hold the Mayor to account for dangerous, irresponsible and illegal behaviour. If the Mayor didn't cower and run from questioning - if he wasn't allowed to do so by those in position to hold him to account - then those critical of him would have a lot less reason to get worked up in ways that could be pejoratively described as a co-dependent relationship.

Now all, please return to your fascination with Jack Layton's penis.
 
I was talking more intoxicated or in some way addled public appearances. He was meant to meet his staff Friday night on the Danforth and he had an invite from organizers, so I would say that was a public appearance in his official capacity as mayor.

If he's drunk in his own household or at the bar it's not really much of our business, as long as he doesn't drive or hit anyone.

And I would say it's an additional concern in the three instances I mentioned and last Friday's episode that he just seems to arrive in that state. It's not a result of him having a good time at the event.
 
9. 3/17/2012 A St. Patrick’s Day reveller reports seeing Ford “stumbling down the street … inebriated and sweaty but in a jovial way” and tells him “You’re the worst mayor ever.” Ford allegedly walks over, kissed her on the forehead, and responds, “I know, but I try.” Ford then heads into a private room in the Bier Markt on the Esplanade, where a staffer describes him as “incoherent” and “hammered.” The DJ working that night reports Ford is fighting and carrying on “like an idiot.” After “storming the dance floor,” Ford is asked to leave and escorted out by his own staff and members of the restaurant’s security team.

http://jeromiewilliams.com/2013/05/...rd-has-done-besides-smoking-crack-in-a-video/
 
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