Rob Ford's Toronto

[LowPolygon]

There are many reasons why I would not vote for Chow. Off the top of my head I would say the fact that she still pledges to kill the Island Airport even after it has been proven to be so positive for Toronto pumping $Billions into the local economy and providing thousands of jobs (including at our largest Mfg employer Bombardier) disqualifies her for any public office in Toronto.

I think Chow is a fraud much like her late husband and lets face it, had she not married Jack it's unlikely that most of us would have ever heard of her name. I will not forget how when Jack was alive these two dippers double-dipped on housing allowances in Ottawa (over $1 Million A YEAR in housing & travel expenses!) and when confronted explained it was OK because they didn't break any rules (just like they didn't break any rules when they lived in Toronto Public housing years before while making over $100,000!)

"As an informal fallacy, the red herring falls into a broad class of relevance fallacies. Unlike the strawman, which is premised on a distortion of the other party's position, the red herring is a seemingly plausible, though ultimately irrelevant, diversionary tactic. The expression is mainly used to assert that an argument is not relevant to the issue being discussed."

 

[ShonTron]

"As an informal fallacy, the red herring falls into a broad class of relevance fallacies. Unlike the strawman, which is premised on a distortion of the other party's position, the red herring is a seemingly plausible, though ultimately irrelevant, diversionary tactic. The expression is mainly used to assert that an argument is not relevant to the issue being discussed."

The classic "Look over there!"

This is just like the Birthers. I suspect some people, even Donald Trump, don't actually believe that the president was born in Kenya, but it is a convenient red herring for ideological and partisan purposes.

 

[LowPolygon]

I think Chow is a fraud much like her late husband and lets face it, had she not married Jack it's unlikely that most of us would have ever heard of her name.....

And if Rob Ford had not expelled from the belly of the woman who married Douglas B. Ford we would never have heard of him. So what? What’s your point?

Oh wait, i know:

We know why people like you don't like people like Chow or Layton. And the fact that you prefer a POS like Ford says all we need to know.

 

[mrtinfoilsocket]

Co-ops are not like grocery stores. The grocery stores do not stand in front and determine that only a certain number of people are allowed in, then tell everyone else we'll put your name on a list and let you know when you can get in.

But grocery stores do indeed have limited items available when there's a sale.

If you went to a grocery store and there was a special on milk with a limit of 4 would you send your spouse and each of your children in so you could each buy the limit of 4, then the store is out of stock. Do you now complain that the store should have more stock because there are people who can only afford to buy milk when it's on sale?

No I wouldn't get 16 milks... but I'm perfectly entitled to 4. (Although I wouldn't buy 4 because I don't drink that much milk )

Did Jack and Olivia have more than one unit that I wasn't aware of?

 

[scar_resident]

Almost all co-ops have a specified and fixed number of subsidized housing spots. Not all spots can be subsidized, or the co-op can't cover its costs -- that's how a mixed-income property works, with those who can pay full rent helping to cover the subsidized. A critical mass of non-subsidized rent-payers are needed for the system to work.

Co-ops are not the same a public housing, in that they don't get government money to cover their ongoing operations -- they have to at least break even, and they do so by having a number of units occupied by people who are willing to pay full-market rent in a facility that is usually not nearly as fancy as a commercial apartment. It's folks like Layton and Chow, paying full rent, who make the co-op system work, and co-ops recognize this by specifying that only a certain number of units can be subsidized.

So what evidence do you have that the unit Layton and Chow had would have been otherwise designated for someone needing subsidized housing? (According to this piece, it most certainly wouldn't.)

The article states that if market units are not rented then there will be no one paying market rent and the co-op will not be able to function. This suggest that there are designated market units, there are not. The co-op neds to manage the % mix. Depending on the number of units in the complex, if one market person leaves and they give that unit for one subsidized person this should not change that % mix. The article does not state if there is a waiting list and how long it is. Given that there was a recession in the early 90's I would find it hard to believe that there was not a waiting list.

Even if it was not given to a subsidized person, co-op market rents are below regular market rents. Getting into a co-op on market rent alleveiates many household budgets.

At 800 a month for a 3 bedroom apartment a person making mid$30k a year would have been able to pay market rent in that co-op. As a person who was building their brand on helping out the poor was it more important that they were seen as living among the common man and not moving up and out when they hit 6 figures or that they give up that unit to a single mother with children who could very probably paid market rent.

 

[scar_resident]

I'm not sure if he had custody of the children but he had a 3 bedroom apartment.

 

[freshcutgrass]

As mentioned for a given area co-op market rates are usually below for profit market rental rates.

Even if this were a relevant issue (which it isn't for reasons that hopefully don't have to be pointed out here), it is certainly irrelevant in the case of Chow & Layton, as they voluntarily payed an additional $325 per month to offset their share of the co-op's Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation subsidy. The Co-Op's 30% low-income tenant level was always maintained, so Layton & Chows presence did not remove a spot for a low income tenant.

Obviously Chow & Layton were not there because they were cheap or trying to rip off the taxpayer (the conservative-thinking mind always thinks people get up in the morning with the intention of stealing their money), but because they believed in and supported mixed-income housing, and showed their support by more than just lip service.

So please, if people still want to pursue this old and very tiring topic they are conclusively wrong about, then we will have to go back the conversation about "stupid people".

 

[OSS 117]

Ugh. The Jack-Layton-lived-in-public-housing myth and the people who cling to that are akin to - and almost as aggravating as - the Birthers.

I'd actually respect the bank VP for not isolating him/herself in Rosedale or Forest Hill and not needing to feel like he/she has to keep up appearances. A co-op requires a few hours a week of contibutions, so that bank VP is helping out (perhaps serving as the co-op's treasurer, or doing something different, like common element gardening). The banks are often accused (and rightly so) for being out of touch. That's a great way of being in touch. Co-ops work because many are built with the idea of having mixed incomes, and isn't taking an affordable unit from someone who needs it.

It's too bad we're not building more of these types of housing. The idea really appeals to me.

That's it. Co-ops are mixed income housing, not low-income housing.

 

[RC8]

As for the silly waitlist argument, that just shows that Jack and Olivia were on to something when they championed co-ops, and had they had their way there would be a lot more of them and thus shorter waitlists.

 

[guitarchitect]

I can't believe this "Chow and Layton were living in subsidized housing while making $100,000" shit still has traction. Anyone that brings it up at this point doesn't deserve any time or consideration, despite how aggrivating it is. Let's be honest, no amount of considered/rational thinking will budge them - just ignore them and move on. It's the Rob Ford thread, after all.

 

[guitarchitect]

Co-ops are not like grocery stores. The grocery stores do not stand in front and determine that only a certain number of people are allowed in, then tell everyone else we'll put your name on a list and let you know when you can get in.

If you went to a grocery store and there was a special on milk with a limit of 4 would you send your spouse and each of your children in so you could each buy the limit of 4, then the store is out of stock. Do you now complain that the store should have more stock because there are people who can only afford to buy milk when it's on sale?

This has nothing to do with Rob Ford, if you have a gigantic chip on your shoulder about Chow + Layton, start a thread and quit shitting all over this one.

 

[LowPolygon]

This has nothing to do with Rob Ford, if you have a gigantic chip on your shoulder about Chow + Layton, start a thread and quit shitting all over this one.

1+1+1

 

[voxpopulicosmicum]

To expand upon your analogy - if the defaced building shown above represents Rob Ford - I would suggest to you that George Smitherman was the equivalent of a nuclear waste dump. I suspect most of us who voted for Ford did so because he represented the lesser evil. Considering all options it was better to live next door this EIFIS clad monstrosity than live next door to a nuclear waste dump. Given the same choices I would vote for Ford again even knowing what I know about the man now. Hopefully next time around we have better choices but I will say right now if it becomes a race between Ford and Chow - Ford has my vote again!

Peepers! I thought we had some progress and dialogue going here, but now this! Chow is not a crackhead and is not in bed with a corrupt aspiring police chief. RoFo is both.

Wha' happened?

 

[scar_resident]

This has nothing to do with Rob Ford, if you have a gigantic chip on your shoulder about Chow + Layton, start a thread and quit shitting all over this one.

I apologize. I was responding to some earlier posts. I understand that many on this forum have certain political ideaologies and get extremely upset about those different opinions but this is a little extreme.

I will refrain from reading and posting on this forum.

 

[PinkLucy]

scar_resident, no one is asking you not to comment, they're just asking you to keep on topic of the thread -- like guitararchitect said, start a new thread about Chow & Layton, this is a Rob Ford thread.