Rob Ford's Toronto

[malvern2]

What kills me is you have all the downtown lefties opposing subways. Lefties who are supposed to be more forward thinking, open minded, level headed, etc. Yet these people can't see 10-15 years in the future when everyone will be crammed onto these tiny LRT wondering, "Who were the idiots from 15 years ago that decided this would be better than subways?" We already see condos jumping up all around the Sheppard line and usage increasing. The same will happen in Scarborough. Then you get to the point where you loop Sheppard into the Bloor line, and there you go: smart transit. If we can't afford subways now, wait till we can; bulid little by little. Guaranteed in 15-20 years people will be hating any LRT in this city as being too small, too slow, and too cold

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

malvern2:

No offense, but 10-15 years ago Sheppard was supposed to do the same thing - and even with all the condos popping up you can't even get to a point where you need the full 6 lane platform that it was built to. Beyond that - what is looping Sheppard onto Bloor at one end supposed to achieve from a planning perspective anyways? And you know what, if LRT got usage to the point where they are overcrowded and unreliable, it would have done it's work and it would then be time to consider building subways - just like the way we did with Yonge line, Bloor line...

"Smart" transit requires more than catchphrases and jingos - and your guarantee in anything is meaningless without collateral.

AoD

 

[dforthandbview]

Are people willing to give up their car to ride the TTC if it's available to them? Yes, condos are going up on Sheppard but are those that live along the subway line there riding that to work or driving their cars? Judging by ridership, it seems as though it's the latter.

 

[Tulse]

What kills me is you have all the downtown lefties opposing subways.

Downtown lefties oppose using magic to pay for subways.

Let's get concrete, malvern2. Would you be willing to finance a subway extension to Scarborough with a dedicated tax for all city residents? If so, how much tax would you be willing to pay? (Be sure to then multiply that across the Toronto population to calculate how much money your maximum tax would bring in.)

 

[freshcutgrass]

What kills me are fiscal conservatives that support schemes that fly in the face of fiscal conservatism.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

What kills me is you have all the downtown lefties opposing subways. Lefties who are supposed to be more forward thinking, open minded, level headed, etc. Yet these people can't see 10-15 years in the future when everyone will be crammed onto these tiny LRT wondering, "Who were the idiots from 15 years ago that decided this would be better than subways?" We already see condos jumping up all around the Sheppard line and usage increasing. The same will happen in Scarborough. Then you get to the point where you loop Sheppard into the Bloor line, and there you go: smart transit. If we can't afford subways now, wait till we can; bulid little by little. Guaranteed in 15-20 years people will be hating any LRT in this city as being too small, too slow, and too cold

As a Starbucks sipping, bike riding, Downtown leftist I fully support the BD extension. However, I don't support extending the Sheppard Subway or burying the ECLRT. As every report has shown, both lines would be under used and a waste of billions.

 

[freshcutgrass]

Rob Ford supports subways for one reason only, and it has nothing to do with the efficient use of limited transit funding.

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

Am I missing something? When did a Scarborough subway get approved?

No Scarborough subway talks until city council makes decision, Glen Murray says

That's what I just thought as I clicked on this thread and started reading it through. I don't see Council going through this exercise yet again and approving a subway here, if for no other reason so as not to give Rob Ford a victory.

As a Starbucks sipping, bike riding, Downtown leftist I fully support the BD extension. However, I don't support extending the Sheppard Subway or burying the ECLRT. As every report has shown, both lines would be under used and a waste of billions.

I fully support subways too and it's disappointing that half of the Eglinton crosstown will be above ground but we can only build what we can afford. Doing something with the funds available is better than doing nothing, or bickering about it for yet another Mayoral term.

 

[bobbob911]

. If we can't afford subways now, wait till we can; build little by little.

I'll ignore the rest of what you said and concentrate on this point. How exactly do you think this would work? Like we would build a couple hundred meters a year using our surplus or something? How is that anyone's sane idea of building a subway? I honestly don't understand this perspective. Imagine if we built other infrastructure like that - "Yeah, we're gonna build the first half of this bridge now, and then wait until more money comes to build the rest of it".

And how well has waiting until we can afford subways worked for us? What scenario do you envision that magically we could "afford" subways? And what does that even mean - should we wait for a time where the entire population of the city is doing fantasically well and we are all lighting our cigars with $100 bills? Can you point to a time in the last 50 years when you think we actually could "afford" to build subways, so I can get an idea of the conditions you are waiting for?

 

[voxpopulicosmicum]

^While I don't generally support responding to trolling posts, the concise correctness and snark of bobbob911's response above brought a smile to my face.

 

[MetroMan]

Love how 'Ford Nation' is always portrayed as this big dumb mass that can't understand the 'facts' that the enlighted anti-Ford people can. How conveniently elitist.

Just a reminder who 'Ford Nation' was in the last election. Most of Toronto.

The opinions in this forum represent a tiny downtown circle in the larger Toronto.

If you don't agree with the opinions of the tiny downtown core, you're somehow not in touch with what this city needs?

Nice of you to totally exclude the majority of downtown to serve your argument. Yes, because people in Trinity Bellwoods Park and the entire waterfront, and the Annex, and the Beaches ... totally voted for Rob Ford.

 

[Tulse]

Nice of you to totally exclude the majority of downtown to serve your argument. Yes, because people in Trinity Bellwoods Park and the entire waterfront, and the Annex, and the Beaches ... totally voted for Rob Ford.

Here's hawc's map overlaid with the ward results from the last election. It seems hawc's notion of the "tiny downtown core" is rather, um, limited:

 

[RC8]

He should have known better than to post that map in a forum full of planners and geographers.

 

[Tulse]

He should have known better

Alas, such could seemingly be said of most of Ford Nation...

 

[Johnny Au]

He should have known better than to post that map in a forum full of planners and geographers.

Exactly. We are armed with facts and evidence, not hearsay. My words are backed with an HBA with High Distinction from U of T's Geography department in the Urban, Economic, Social Geography program.