that_girl_there
New Member
Can you please explain to me how things are drastically worse now than 8 years ago? Torontonians have been complaining about high property taxes, inadequate transit service, and a whole lot more for a long time now.
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Rob Ford - Why the Supervillian?
- Thread starter T-Bor
- Start date
Can you please explain to me how things are drastically worse now than 8 years ago? Torontonians have been complaining about high property taxes, inadequate transit service, and a whole lot more for a long time now.
kettal
Banned
During Lastman's days, Toronto failed to make a single balanced budget. This year, the city has a balanced budget.
kettal
Banned
Glen
Senior Member
There is far more to offering a credible plan than costing it out. Her 'solution' may very well be another push to move jobs out of the city. Seeing as employment density is the primary determinant of PT usage, how would this be credible?
tkip
Active Member
City condition....
I don't pretend to understand how the budget is handled or how city hall works but I do know a few people that pay attention and understand quite well how this whole polictical/fisco machine operates and they all pretty much agree that Toronto is in worse shape now than 8 years ago when Miller took over.
Much higher taxes, services that are the same or less, streets crumbling, unions that answer to no one, and massive spending increases and mass hirings when there was a recession and no talk about pay freezes or layoffs when it's become obvious that the city can only afford what it spends with more tax grabs and fees that show no sign of stopping.
There seems to be no serious attempt to get a handle on spending and serioulsy look at what the city can actually afford and efforts to control spending that is simply out of control.
Something has to give.
One friend has told me that she flat out believes the city is actually bankrupt behind the scenes and the council is hiding this from the public. Since she's the secretary treasury for her local and has had years of experience doing this and she has a keen understanding of how things work behind the scenes, I think she's onto something.
I don't pretend to understand how the budget is handled or how city hall works but I do know a few people that pay attention and understand quite well how this whole polictical/fisco machine operates and they all pretty much agree that Toronto is in worse shape now than 8 years ago when Miller took over.
Much higher taxes, services that are the same or less, streets crumbling, unions that answer to no one, and massive spending increases and mass hirings when there was a recession and no talk about pay freezes or layoffs when it's become obvious that the city can only afford what it spends with more tax grabs and fees that show no sign of stopping.
There seems to be no serious attempt to get a handle on spending and serioulsy look at what the city can actually afford and efforts to control spending that is simply out of control.
Something has to give.
One friend has told me that she flat out believes the city is actually bankrupt behind the scenes and the council is hiding this from the public. Since she's the secretary treasury for her local and has had years of experience doing this and she has a keen understanding of how things work behind the scenes, I think she's onto something.
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GraphicMatt
Looking forward to a FRESH START for Toronto
So you don't profess to understand anything related to these opinions you hold. Okay.
The city faces real financial challenges generally related to a) provincially-mandated services that the city has no choice but to fund to specific levels; b) general voter antipathy towards property tax increases despite a huge disparity with surrounding municipalities; c) a huge police budget that the city has very little control over; d) Other collective agreements that contain clauses from decades past that make significant cost savings in the short-term almost impossible; and e) much higher costs when it comes to delivering social services due to Toronto's status as the go-to place for the GTA's homeless, mentally ill, etc.
These are significant challenges and I'd agree that David Miller has not always done a great job of communicating with voters regarding how to deal with him. We need a mayor who is willing to acknowledge this reality - and not some fantasy-land where all the city's problems are due to stupid, corrupt assholes spending billions of dollars on plants - and provide workable, long-term solutions.
The next mayor's most important responsibility will be working with the provincial government to find a sustainable future for both parties. This was an area where David Miller almost completely failed.
The city faces real financial challenges generally related to a) provincially-mandated services that the city has no choice but to fund to specific levels; b) general voter antipathy towards property tax increases despite a huge disparity with surrounding municipalities; c) a huge police budget that the city has very little control over; d) Other collective agreements that contain clauses from decades past that make significant cost savings in the short-term almost impossible; and e) much higher costs when it comes to delivering social services due to Toronto's status as the go-to place for the GTA's homeless, mentally ill, etc.
These are significant challenges and I'd agree that David Miller has not always done a great job of communicating with voters regarding how to deal with him. We need a mayor who is willing to acknowledge this reality - and not some fantasy-land where all the city's problems are due to stupid, corrupt assholes spending billions of dollars on plants - and provide workable, long-term solutions.
The next mayor's most important responsibility will be working with the provincial government to find a sustainable future for both parties. This was an area where David Miller almost completely failed.
The_Waffler
Active Member
I'll settle for moving out a feeling a little smug when it happens. If the extent of the actual cash crisis in the city were to be acknowledged by those in power, see a precipitous drop in property values. A bankrupt city will make drastic cuts and have ever increasing taxes and fees.
Parkdalian
Senior Member
I didn't say it was perfect. I said it's more credible than the rest in that she actually provides a way to fund her transit vision. Whether or not it is a good way to fund it, is debateable. All of the other candidates provide no real way to fund their visions beyond some vague handwaving. Hers is a first step, and more of the candidates should be talking like her.
And once again: Rob Ford has no transit vision at all.
Slight correction: Rob Ford has no vision at all.
Parkdalian
Senior Member
I stand corrected.
GenerationW
Senior Member
Toronto is not bankrupt, but if New York City could go bankrupt as it did in the 70's, it can happen here. New York's banks back then were also very confident they'd get paid until the day came when the well suddenly ran dry.
You may be asking for a fantasy candidate. Frankly, the grander the vision a candidate spouts, the more I worry.
"We're taking back Toronto!" was pretty useless rhetoric, but it helped Miller get elected. And it'll be a campaign void of sufficient spice if 'broken' and 'bankrupt' are the most divisive terms being thrown around. Give me more fireworks!
Parkdalian
Senior Member
I don't really understand your point here unless you are making knee-jerk criticisms. So, you think that useless rhetoric should be used and encouraged? Why, so that we can elect someone completely unsuitable for the job? If the city is really "bankrupt," isn't that a serious accusation that needs to be dealt with reasonably?
I'm not even asking for a "grand" vision - I'm just asking for substantial, well-thought out policies backed by evidence and intelligence. You know, the backbone of *any* successful political campaign. Rob Ford's rhetoric-fueled campaign makes him look like Toronto's Sarah Palin in a fat suit. I'm not sure that's what Toronto needs - I'd prefer Sarah Palin.
SimonP
Active Member
A few corrections. New York City did not go bankrupt, it almost did but was bailed out by the state. Also it's credit rating was very low throughout the period, and it has never been as high as Toronto's is now. The low credit rating was one of the big problems in the 1970s as it forced the city to pay high interest rates. Even today Neew York has never been granted a credit rating as good as Toronto's. It peaked at AA- prior to the recent problems.
It is true that the credit rating agencies were gamed by Goldman Sachs and the other investment banks during the recent crisis. Do you think that Miller is pulling off some similar scheme? While the agencies have blown some dramatic calls recently. I'm still far more likely to trsut them than some random fellow on the internet.
If you are right and they are wrong, there are astounding amounts of money to be made. A default swap on debt with Toronto's rating might cost $5000 for you to earn $1 million when Toronto goes bankrupt. If the city even gets close to bankruptcy the value would increase dramatically. (For Greece CDSs were trading at about $70,000 per million when it was waiting on a bailout.) Of course retail investors can't usually buy these things, but I'm sure a clever broker could find a way for you to bet against Toronto's debt.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
The_Waffler;412103 FWIW said:
nfitz
Superstar
What on earth are you talking about? Why are you making this stuff up? If we are bankrupt, why is Toronto's credit rating been improving (and it was already very good previously! The amount of money spent servicing the debt is only a small part of the budget. And taxes are lower than many surrounding cities, so there's lots of room to increase if there is a crisis (not that there should be one).
Why are you lying to us? What is your motive? Where is your proof?
Wow, that's the pot calling the kettle black! Your the one making wild and extravagant claims without a shred of evidence, and in opposition to experts who know far more about the subject than you.
What is it about elections that bring all the nutters out of the woodwork?
Good riddance I say. Hope you enjoy the higher property taxes ... and the improved quality of life ... not to mention having to shovel off the car to go get milk!
If you live in Toronto, and your car isn't a business car, and you register it to an address that isn't a your residence, that you are a liar, and a cheat. If one was to do that they would be a worthless piece of humanity, no better than a common criminal. Wow ... to have the gall to defend such despicable behaviour! Shocking ... to save $5 a month - laughable.