Roads: Scarlett Road / CP Rail Bridge EA

[JasonParis]

I often think the yard across from Loblaws would make a good station on the Milton and/or Midtown lines eventually.

 

[drum118]

I often think the yard across from Loblaws would make a good station on the Milton and/or Midtown lines eventually.

There has been talk about a station in that area over 10 years, but like GO Thinking, station will be too close to others considering Kipling is the only closest one to it.

 

[W. K. Lis]

I often think the yard across from Loblaws would make a good station on the Milton and/or Midtown lines eventually.

There has been talk about a station in that area over 10 years, but like GO Thinking, station will be too close to others considering Kipling is the only closest one to it.

With a GO Station at Dundas Street West and Jane Street or Scarlett Road or Runnymede Road, extending the 512 ST CLAIR streetcar to loop around Jane, Dundas, Scarlett, and St. Clair would be beneficial.

Maybe after they build the new Scarlett and Dundas bridge. Maybe after they do something about the flooding under the Jane Street bridge. Likely at the same time, after putting in the Jane LRT underground between Line 2 and Eglinton Flats (Line 5).

 

[crs1026]

^A modest extension of the 512, connecting to the Smarttrack station at St Clair and Keele, would put this area on the transit grid far more effectively than a stop on the Milton line. Even moreso if the Jane LRT ever comes to be.

- Paul

 

[W. K. Lis]

With a GO Station at Dundas Street West and Jane Street or Scarlett Road or Runnymede Road, extending the 512 ST CLAIR streetcar to loop around Jane, Dundas, Scarlett, and St. Clair would be beneficial.

Maybe after they build the new Scarlett and Dundas bridge. Maybe after they do something about the flooding under the Jane Street bridge. Likely at the same time, after put in the Jane LRT underground between Line 2 and Eglinton Flats.

A Jane GO Station would not only have the Jane LRT connect with the Milton GO Train going downtown, but also with the possible GO Midtown which would bypass downtown. The whole Scarlett Road, St. Clair Avenue West, Jane Street, and Dundas Street West would become a new transit hub for the area.

From link.

 

[rickvbiker]

I’ve often wondered what the impetus for this project is and who is paying for it?

Is it to provide a wider bridge for increased tracks for GO trains? Then shouldn’t Metrolinx be paying for it?

I live in the area and I don’t really see the community benefits. Sure, there are benefits to commuters with the ability to turn left (east) onto Dundas from Scarlett southbound, but that doesn’t really benefit the local community. If anything its a detriment to be pushing more traffic onto Dundas that currently uses St. Clair. And it can’t help but increase traffic into Warren Park via Gooch/Varsity/St. Marks seeking a shortcut to Jane Street.

The addition of the bike lanes under the bridge is good, even though southbound they terminate at Dundas, but is that enough of a benefit?

 

[drum118]

I’ve often wondered what the impetus for this project is and who is paying for it?

Is it to provide a wider bridge for increased tracks for GO trains? Then shouldn’t Metrolinx be paying for it?

I live in the area and I don’t really see the community benefits. Sure, there are benefits to commuters with the ability to turn left (east) onto Dundas from Scarlett southbound, but that doesn’t really benefit the local community. If anything its a detriment to be pushing more traffic onto Dundas that currently uses St. Clair. And it can’t help but increase traffic into Warren Park via Gooch/Varsity/St. Marks seeking a shortcut to Jane Street.

The addition of the bike lanes under the bridge is good, even though southbound they terminate at Dundas, but is that enough of a benefit?

It was started by TTC who wanted to take 512 to Kipling as well the city to deal with dangerous issues.

CP is paying part of the cost as its their responsibility in the first place with ML paying some to make sure there is at least 4 tracks to meet future needs. The city is also funding it to meet their requirements.

The new underpass is design to allow 512 to go west with most of Dundas being in mixed traffic in the future. An EA was supposed to started in 2008 to take 512 west to a loop a Scarlett Rd, but was put on the back burner to see how the new ROW was working for 512 and kill when Ford came Mayor.

The old Dundas line west of Dundas West Station would have to be built again since it has been removed with a new EA. If the tracks were still under the asphalt, then there would be no EA. An EA would be require for the line running west of Runnymede Rd to Connect to Scarlett Rd. The idea back around 2008 was to cut down on the deadheading of cars to/from Roncesvalles yard as it was an hour trip each way with the Dundas Line extension. With Hillcrest to be use as a yard for 512/511, there is no need for a Dundas line extension at this time.

You are late to the talk, but the community has wanted a station there for over a decade or so as it would offer options how people could travel.

As noted, a Jane station would offer service not only to the Milton Line, but also the Crosstown line as it is going to happen some day just line the Jane line.

 

[W. K. Lis]

From link.

Scarlett Road is just east of the Humber River. It is the first of three underpasses before Keele Street. They used to be all narrow two lane underpasses.

Jane Street underpass in 1954. Looking north from Dundas Street West. It was widen From link.

Jane Street today. Flooding occurs during big rain downpours. From link.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Just north of the Scarlett Road underpass, at the hydro corridor, is the Lambton Golf Course. See Lambton's history at this link.

Over the years, Lambton has hosted numerous provincial and national championships including: the Canadian Ladies’ Amateur Championship, the Canadian PGA Championship, the very first Canadian Seniors Golf Association Championship, the Canadian Women’s Senior Golf Association Championship, the Ontario Amateur and others. Most recently Alena Sharp won the 2004 Canadian PGA Women’s Championship and the Club also hosted the Four Nations Team Championship as Canada defeated squads from Australia, New Zealand and Japan.

Lambton has hosted four Canadian Opens​

• 1907 won by Percy Barrett​

• 1910 won by Daniel Kenny​

• 1925 won by Leo Diegel​

• 1941 won by Sam Snead​

​

Lambton has hosted four Canadian Amateurs​

• 1907 won by George S. Lyon​

• 1910 won by Fritz Martin​

• 1919 won by W. McLuckie​

• 1932 won by Gordon B. Taylor​

 

[W. K. Lis]

I’ve often wondered what the impetus for this project is and who is paying for it?

Is it to provide a wider bridge for increased tracks for GO trains? Then shouldn’t Metrolinx be paying for it?

I live in the area and I don’t really see the community benefits. Sure, there are benefits to commuters with the ability to turn left (east) onto Dundas from Scarlett southbound, but that doesn’t really benefit the local community. If anything its a detriment to be pushing more traffic onto Dundas that currently uses St. Clair. And it can’t help but increase traffic into Warren Park via Gooch/Varsity/St. Marks seeking a shortcut to Jane Street.

The addition of the bike lanes under the bridge is good, even though southbound they terminate at Dundas, but is that enough of a benefit?

Likely they need the widening of the Scarlett Road underpass so that when they dig up the Jane Street underpass for a LRT station and to fix the underpass flooding, they can use Scarlett as a detour.

 

[crs1026]

Scarlett/St Clair/Dundas is a very old intersection that has lots of issues with trucks turning, clearances, etc. It's long past time that it was brought up to standard. If they bake in streetcar friendliness, so much the better.

Connect the 512 to Kipling GO, develop the north side of St Clair from Gunns to Scarlett, add in the development going in on Dundas west of there....could be a gamechanger. A Jane GO station might not be needed if there is LRT/streetcar in four directions.

- Paul

 

[smallspy]

It was started by TTC who wanted to take 512 to Kipling.....

No, it wasn't.

The furthest that the TTC expects streetcar service to extend out that way is Scarlett, and that's only as a means to turn the cars around so that they can service Jane.

There are no plans whatsoever to extend any lines further west. There simply isn't the ridership. The buses are running every 20 minutes - what would be the point in running a half-hourly streetcar?

Dan

 

[W. K. Lis]

The sidewalks will be 3.4m to 4.9m wide, in addition to to bicycles lanes (plural). They included space for streetcars and tractor-trailers to do turns.

There will be TWO left turn lanes from eastbound Dundas to northbound Scarlett. Better again for tractor-trailers.

 

[Allandale25]

Agenda Item History - 2022.IE30.3

Amendment to Purchase Order Number 6045265 with Morrison Hershfield Limited for Professional Services for Scarlett Road Underpass Bridge Replacement and Road Network Improvements at Canadian Pacific Railway / Metrolinx Rail Corridor 2022.IE30.3 Infrastructure and Environment Committee 2022-05-25

 

[rickvbiker]

Thank you for posting this. In a coincidence this project came up in a meeting the Warren Park Ratepayers Association had with Gord Perks just yesterday.
He promised that the community would have advance notice of changes and be allowed to provide input on this project.

In the document ( https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2022/ie/bgrd/backgroundfile-225843.pdf ) that justifies the cost increases for the engineering firm, the part that concerns me is this:
In February 2022, at the 90% review stage, Canadian Pacific Railway requested the City change the bridge superstructure type to one that maximizes flexibility for the railway's future operational needs, rather than limiting their ability to re-align tracks at this crossing with a through plate girder design.
Does this mean that CPR wants to add some additional capability (tracks and traffic) to the bridge? There was already a design change in 2014 to add an additional track for Metrolinx.

Also of note, according to this document, the TTC is no longer requesting provisions for streetcar tracks.
The City issued a Request for Proposal for the detailed engineering design of the new bridge, including provisions for dedicated streetcar tracks in 2011. This Request for Proposal was retracted upon confirmation from the Toronto Transit Commission that there were no longer plans for future streetcars at this location.

And lastly, is it normal for a project like this to be this far along without a cost sharing agreement?:
In accordance with Board Order Agreement 14738 (between the Canadian Pacific Railway and Township of York) dated September 9, 1911, the existing underpass structure is owned and maintained by Canadian Pacific Railway. As such, the City is currently engaged in negotiations with Canadian Pacific Railway to determine the cost sharing associated with the project. Once established, cost sharing proportions will be recorded in the Construction Agreement between Canadian Pacific Railway and the City.