Roads: Ontario/GTA Highways Discussion

[TOareaFan]

I don't agree with the Province's new approach with naming highways. In Ontario "4##" has the same type of meaning as "I-##" in the US. That is to say "divided expressway with a speed limit of 100". Calling 4 lane expressways by the original number (without the 4 in front of it) I think could potentially confuse a lot of people. The last highway I can think of that, when upgraded, was redesignated was Highway 416 (originally Highway 16, half of which became 416, and half of which remained as Price of Wales Dr in Ottawa). To me, this approach makes a lot more sense.

I know they're doing it to avoid confusion when a highway switches from being 4 lanes to being 2, but still. I don't think anyone is confused when Highway 417 becomes Highway 17 just east of Arnprior. There's no "omg, what road am I on?!"

by the same token, though, is there a lot of "omg I can't be going this fast on a divided highway....it does not start with a 4!" confusion either? I think most people get on the highway, look at the direction and the speed limit sign and say "right, let's get going!"

 

[gweed123]

by the same token, though, is there a lot of "omg I can't be going this fast on a divided highway....it does not start with a 4!" confusion either? I think most people get on the highway, look at the direction and the speed limit sign and say "right, let's get going!"

I guess I'm just a stickler for uniformity, haha.

 

[Dan416]

The 400-series highways are in a different category than those other highways, even if they are divided. I'm sure there's some reason they don't qualify as 400-series, otherwise I would think the province would have renamed them.

From the Ontario Driver's Handbook:

Level One (Class G1):
...
You must not drive on 400-series highways with a posted speed limit over 80km/h. Also you must not drive on certain high-speed roads including the Queen Elizabeth Way, Don Valley Parkway and the Gardiner Expressway in the Greater Toronto Area, the E.C. Row Expressway in Windsor and the Conestoga Parkway in Kitchener-Waterloo. However, if your accompanying driver is a driving instructor, you may drive on any road.

So the only real highways in Ontario other than the 400-series are the QEW, DVP, Gardiner, E.C. Row, Conestoga Pkwy. There's no single or double digit highways in the list.

 

[ShonTron]

But there's plenty of fully grade-separated freeways on can drive on even with a G1. I taught my brother on some of these "under-the-radar" freeways once he got good enough to take the G1 and G2 exits - Burlington Street is one such freeway. Highway 11 has always been exempt because there's no easy alternatives where Highway 11 is a full fledged freeway. I wonder if Highway 69 will be renumbered Highway 400 once the whole project is done; but there's no alternative route between Parry Sound and Sudbury without lengthy detours.

There's plenty of long freeways in the US without Interstate designation - US 23 and US 131 in Michigan, Highway Loops 101 and 202 in Metro Pheonix (Arizona has no 3-digit Interstates), long sections of US 101 in California, the various toll roads in Florida, even parts of the New Jersey Turnpike. The Conestoga Parkway makes sense as not being a 400-series highway because it was never stand-alone as a route, the 417 is even if it coasts into 17 at Arnprior. Heck, Highway 406 is a 400-series highway with traffic lights and a 2-lane section in Welland an a 80 km/h section in St. Catharines.

Britain, of course, designates Motorway-standard roads not in of themselves Motorway with the (M) marker such as A1(M), but that's unique. We'd have 7(M) - near Ottawa, 8 (M) - Kitchener, multiple 11(M), and one or two 17(M).

 

[MisterF]

The freeways that aren't in the 400-series are either urban freeways or intercity freeways that aren't directly connected to the rest of the freeway network. While most of the 115 is a full freeway, south of the 35 interchange it's a substandard expressway with private businesses right on the road. Highway 11 isn't a full freeway for any significant length, it's a divided expressway with a lot of at grade intersections. Highway 69 is being renumbered to Highway 400 as it gets widened.

Well, partly - also partly because the EA hasn't been finished for that long. Clearly the whole thing wasn't going to be built in 2 years!

BTW, I wonder how many people will be using that "Future Transitway" through the greenbelt between Oshawa and 115. LOL!

Between Greyhound and GO Transit there are up to 20 buses going to Peterborough every day in each direction. Realistically the transitway will probably never get built since that part of the 407 will never get traffic jams. It doesn't hurt to leave the option open though.

 

[jn_12]

Heck, Highway 406 is a 400-series highway with traffic lights and a 2-lane section in Welland an a 80 km/h section in St. Catharines.

And it was only within the last few years that they converted it from 2 lanes to 4. I still find it weird that there are now actual overpasses and on/off ramps on the 406. One in particular (Merritt Rd.) in Welland is an overpass to nowhere. Though the one at Highway 20 is very much welcomed. Funny enough, the point where it goes from 2 lanes to 4 is exactly on the Welland/Thorold border. Perhaps the province's response to voting for Peter Kormos year after year?

Also, (while I'm sure you know this) the reason there are sections in St Catharines that are 80km/h is because of the bends that the highway takes as it meanders through St Catharines. For a 400 series highway, some of those bends are very tight and it can really feel like you're about to be launched into the 12 Mile Creek if you're not careful.

 

[bobert_d]

~

 

[bobert_d]

The freeways that aren't in the 400-series are either urban freeways or intercity freeways that aren't directly connected to the rest of the freeway network. While most of the 115 is a full freeway, south of the 35 interchange it's a substandard expressway with private businesses right on the road. Highway 11 isn't a full freeway for any significant length, it's a divided expressway with a lot of at grade intersections. Highway 69 is being renumbered to Highway 400 as it gets widened.

The bolded part isn't strictly true, although the meaning is essentially the same. 69 is not being re-numbered as it is widened, but will rather be re-numbered when the project is complete.

 

[gweed123]

And it was only within the last few years that they converted it from 2 lanes to 4. I still find it weird that there are now actual overpasses and on/off ramps on the 406. One in particular (Merritt Rd.) in Welland is an overpass to nowhere. Though the one at Highway 20 is very much welcomed. Funny enough, the point where it goes from 2 lanes to 4 is exactly on the Welland/Thorold border. Perhaps the province's response to voting for Peter Kormos year after year?

This same thing happened along Highway 1 in New Brunswick. The highway was upgraded piece by piece from 2 lanes to 4. When I drove it back in 2005, it must have switched back and forth 4 or 5 times. And every time it did, it was at the border between counties. I suspect 'who got the highway upgraded first' was very much based on which riding voted for which party.

 

[MisterF]

The bolded part isn't strictly true, although the meaning is essentially the same. 69 is not being re-numbered as it is widened, but will rather be re-numbered when the project is complete.

Are you sure about that? The Highway 400 designation has been extended along with the 4 laning at least as far as Parry Sound.

 

[andomano]

Are you sure about that? The Highway 400 designation has been extended along with the 4 laning at least as far as Parry Sound.

MTO has opened a ~40 km four lane section of the highway south of Sudbury, and has yet to designate it as Hwy 400. It's still designated as Hwy 69, but operates at 100km/hr.

 

[Dan416]

MTO has opened a ~40 km four lane section of the highway south of Sudbury, and has yet to designate it as Hwy 400. It's still designated as Hwy 69, but operates at 100km/hr.

Maybe due to budget crises they were unable to paint enough Highway 400 signs?

 

[gweed123]

MTO has opened a ~40 km four lane section of the highway south of Sudbury, and has yet to designate it as Hwy 400. It's still designated as Hwy 69, but operates at 100km/hr.

My guess is that because there's still some Highway 69 between the two four lane sections, having 2 separate Highway 400s may not be the wisest thing. Once the whole thing is 4 lanes, I suspect it'll be changed.

 

[MisterF]

MTO has opened a ~40 km four lane section of the highway south of Sudbury, and has yet to designate it as Hwy 400. It's still designated as Hwy 69, but operates at 100km/hr.

As I said, freeway sections that aren't directly connected to the rest of the freeway network aren't given 400 numbers. The Highway 400 numbering is getting extended as it gets widened from south to north.

 

[ShonTron]

MTO has opened a ~40 km four lane section of the highway south of Sudbury, and has yet to designate it as Hwy 400. It's still designated as Hwy 69, but operates at 100km/hr.

Before the Wahata Gap was completed recently, 400 and 69 were co-signed between that gap and Parry Sound, when the 2003 freeway was opened between Bowes Street (former 69B) and MacTier.

Now that the Wahata Gap was closed, I have no idea what the status of Highway 69 south of Highway 559 is. The orphaned section north of Highway 144 and the 400 at MacTier is still Highway 69 as far as I know (but should be renumbered 569 except where 144 is co-signed, and numbered that), but don't know about the recently opened Nobel bypass.

Much of Highway 69 that was bypassed in 2003 was never given a 500 or 600 series number or kept as 69, but given the name of Ostler Park Drive, likely a "secret" MTO 7000-series highway number since it passes through neither a county or regional municipality or status town or city which it could conveniently download to.