Roads: Ontario/GTA Highways Discussion

[lenaitch]

^ They exist but I don't think particularly common. I suppose no more expensive to build at the same time as the original roadways or a major reconstruction. I'm not sure there is a huge advantage or disadvantage one way or the other. Perhaps to the leaseholder businesses if traffic flows are particularly uneven by time of day, day of week, etc.

 

[innsertnamehere]

^ They exist but I don't think particularly common. I suppose no more expensive to build at the same time as the original roadways or a major reconstruction. I'm not sure there is a huge advantage or disadvantage one way or the other. Perhaps to the leaseholder businesses if traffic flows are particularly uneven by time of day, day of week, etc.

MTO hates hates hates hates left side exits so I can't imagine them ever building something like that, even if it was on a new construction highway.

The only spot is MAYBE on a lower traffic new construction freeway in Northern Ontario as traffic levels couldn't support a separate On-route facility for each direction. Even then I'm doubtful, they would probably just build it off the direct highway access through a standard interchange access.

 

[ShonTron]

MTO hates hates hates hates left side exits so I can't imagine them ever building something like that, even if it was on a new construction highway.

The only spot is MAYBE on a lower traffic new construction freeway in Northern Ontario as traffic levels couldn't support a separate On-route facility for each direction. Even then I'm doubtful, they would probably just build it off the direct highway access through a standard interchange access.

The Angola service centre on the NY Turnpike west of Buffalo has gas stations and parking lots on other sides but a central restaurant and retail building in the median.

The 400 and 401 are among the only highways in North America with full service centres but no toll barriers. A-15 north of Montreal has one, mentioned in this thread, but it, like the A-10, was built as a toll autoroute. The toll booths are gone, but on a few places on the A-10, you can tell where they were.

 

[nfitz]

A-15 north of Montreal has one, mentioned in this thread, but it, like the A-10, was built as a toll autoroute.

A-40 East of Montréal also had tolls.

But there is a service centre on A-20 west of Montréal, and that was never tolled.

 

[W. K. Lis]

There is this middle of the median version in North Carolina along I 77
View attachment 339750

Not good if one tends to follow the keep right rule suggestion. Slow traffic would have to get left and speed up (unlikely). Maybe with overpasses and underpasses, but that would add to the cost.

 

[lenaitch]

MTO hates hates hates hates left side exits so I can't imagine them ever building something like that, even if it was on a new construction highway.

The only spot is MAYBE on a lower traffic new construction freeway in Northern Ontario as traffic levels couldn't support a separate On-route facility for each direction. Even then I'm doubtful, they would probably just build it off the direct highway access through a standard interchange access.

I' actually a fan of the typical Interstate experience where food, fuel and accommodations are clustered at interchanges (I am aware that some have service centres, as we have seen), with large, tall signs so you know what's there. It gets the MTO out of the whole landlord thing and lets the traveller determine the marketplace. One downside is a high volume of large trucks can make the interchange and adjacent municipal roads a bit of a mess if not designed adequately.

I still support the need for non-commercial rest areas along our 400 highways.

 

[drum118]

I' actually a fan of the typical Interstate experience where food, fuel and accommodations are clustered at interchanges (I am aware that some have service centres, as we have seen), with large, tall signs so you know what's there. It gets the MTO out of the whole landlord thing and lets the traveller determine the marketplace. One downside is a high volume of large trucks can make the interchange and adjacent municipal roads a bit of a mess if not designed adequately.

I still support the need for non-commercial rest areas along our 400 highways.

You Think???

Sure need it on the east coast as roads were far apart more than Ontario. I mean far.

In the US you can have service centre in the middle of the highway to service both direction at the same time.

 

[lenaitch]

You Think???

Sure need it on the east coast as roads were far apart more than Ontario. I mean far.

In the US you can have service centre in the middle of the highway to service both direction at the same time.

Actually, I didn't find the TCH route through NB and NS that bad. The only stretch that seems relatively long between obvious communities and services is NB2 between Fredericton and Moncton, which is more of a 'greenfield' route, versus Edmundston to Fredericton which more closely parallels the old highway and towns. There might be services enroute but they weren't particularly well signed.

On the bike, my butt's good for about 1 1/2 - 2 hours, and distance between stops is relative when you consider northern Ontario. Also, on bike, if you just need a break, it's easier to simply pull over(except on the likes of our 400 series).

 

[junctionist]

In Poland, I saw an interesting solution to the issue of drivers not having access to services at a service centre on one side of the freeway. They built an architectural pedestrian bridge between the two sides at a service centre on the A4 freeway.

Here’s a Google Maps Street View of the area. I don’t know if access to both sides was the reasoning, but it’s a nice way to stretch your legs on a long drive without going too far from the highway.

There are a lot of architectural overpasses and bridges on the A4, like this one or this one. They make the drive more interesting than the typical Ontario freeway where every bridge and overpass looks generic and forgettable. Even a landmark bridge like the Burlington Skyway got a generic concrete twin span a few decades ago that makes it look more utilitarian and less remarkable.

And how about some landscaping around exits instead of just overgrown grass?

 

[lenaitch]

Well, we have Webers.

 

[timio]

In England I saw a service centre that spanned the highway. I didn't go up to see if any services were on the bridge, but it's pretty wide: https://goo.gl/maps/CYBRMceX9QpEKR9C8

 

[Haljackey]

I' actually a fan of the typical Interstate experience where food, fuel and accommodations are clustered at interchanges (I am aware that some have service centres, as we have seen), with large, tall signs so you know what's there. It gets the MTO out of the whole landlord thing and lets the traveller determine the marketplace. One downside is a high volume of large trucks can make the interchange and adjacent municipal roads a bit of a mess if not designed adequately.

I still support the need for non-commercial rest areas along our 400 highways.

Those towering signs are a blight on the landscape. I hate them with a passion.

It also makes every interchange pretty much the same. No real character when you get off the freeway, They usually all look like this:

I like our service centres. Quick pee stop in clean rest rooms, or you can grab a coffee and/or a quick bite of you want to. Prices there aren't really inflated except at the gas station and convenience store (places like Timmies and A&W are fine). If you need fuel it is cheaper to go off the highway a bit.

 

[Student99]

I' actually a fan of the typical Interstate experience where food, fuel and accommodations are clustered at interchanges (I am aware that some have service centres, as we have seen), with large, tall signs so you know what's there. It gets the MTO out of the whole landlord thing and lets the traveller determine the marketplace. One downside is a high volume of large trucks can make the interchange and adjacent municipal roads a bit of a mess if not designed adequately.

I still support the need for non-commercial rest areas along our 400 highways.

Amen! I like the choices. It's not pretty, but it kind of IS pretty at the same time. Like how Time's Square is ugly but pretty. Cool to see chains all clustered together competing.

And YES we need non-commercial rest areas along our 400 highways! I love that these are all over the US. ALL OVER. Wonderful to pull over to a park-like setting and relax a moment. Hate that on our 400 series the only option is to pull over into a crowded asphalt field and be bombarded with commercialization.

 

[nfitz]

In England I saw a service centre that spanned the highway. I didn't go up to see if any services were on the bridge, but it's pretty wide: https://goo.gl/maps/CYBRMceX9QpEKR9C8

That's pretty common there - at least for the older ones.

And some do indeed have the restaurant, etc., over the motorway. Not sure if they had elevators though ...

These days, new ones are more likely to be on an existing roundabout at the motorway.

 

[lenaitch]

Those towering signs are a blight on the landscape. I hate them with a passion.

It also makes every interchange pretty much the same. No real character when you get off the freeway, They usually all look like this:

I like our service centres. Quick pee stop in clean rest rooms, or you can grab a coffee and/or a quick bite of you want to. Prices there aren't really inflated except at the gas station and convenience store (places like Timmies and A&W are fine). If you need fuel it is cheaper to go off the highway a bit.

Admittedly, they can start to look tacky if the commercial density gets too high.

That pic is a bit of an extreme example. It is Breezewood PA when I-70 meets the Pennsylvania Turnpike, now I-76 (still tolled). Federal funding back in the day did not allow a direct Interstate connection to a tolled highway, so all interchanging traffic between two major highways is routed through a couple of short surface roads. Those surface roads are now actually designated as part of I-70. It's also a bit of a compressed shot.

True, the service centres are good for a quick in-and-out. But if you want to give the kids a break with a bit of a picnic and leg stretch, stretch out your legs, the dog, etc. they are an ocean of hot pavement. As discussed above, many to have picnic areas but they are not very inviting and treated like a closely guarded secret.