Roads: Highway 401 Widening - Highway 8 to Highway 410 (MTO, U/C, Planned)

[ShonTron]

I agree about the LRT. Where's the coordination between Metrolinx and the Mississauga/Brampton transport study that just recommended LRT with the MTO?

The HOV lanes are a joke, because the MTO will only consider them on new lane additions (such as the 401 widening west of Highway 410), but not on existing highways.

 

[nfitz]

Any other party who then takes the document and distributes is violating the copyright of the copyright owner; either the city or the consultant, depending on the terms of the contract (though don't City of Toronto contracts generally assume copyright, unlike provincial contracts? I can't say I've ever had to sign a city contract).

Generally for engineering documents, the copyright is held by the creator, who grants the client a licence to distribute. But doesn't generally grant the client a licence to grant other the licence to distribute.

All these fan sites that we are all familiar with with lots of old reports are all full of copyright violations ... not that I suggest that they be removed.

 

[salmonz]

Any other party who then takes the document and distributes is violating the copyright of the copyright owner; either the city or the consultant, depending on the terms of the contract (though don't City of Toronto contracts generally assume copyright, unlike provincial contracts? I can't say I've ever had to sign a city contract).

Generally for engineering documents, the copyright is held by the creator, who grants the client a licence to distribute. But doesn't generally grant the client a licence to grant other the licence to distribute.

All these fan sites that we are all familiar with with lots of old reports are all full of copyright violations ... not that I suggest that they be removed.

I received a response on the copyright issue from the Ministry of Transportation, please see the following email communication.
Link: http://www.andrewsalmons.ca/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/MTO_Hurontario401_PublicDocConfirmation.pdf

The MTO states these are public documents and were presented at a Public Information Centre in April 2008. There's no issue with copyright and making these documents available online for others.

 

[salmonz]

For those interested in more information on the project, feel free contact:

Olga Garces, P. Eng.
Senior Project Engineer
Planning and Design, Peel-Halton

Ministry of Transportation, Ontario
4th Floor, Building D
1201 Wilson Avenue
Downsview, ON M3M 1J8
Phone: (416) 235 - 4952
Fax: (416) 235 - 3576
olga.garces@ontario.ca

 

[Platform 27]

Note, many commuters from Cambridge, Milton, Halton Hills, Meadowvale use this stretch... once it's done, hopefully it's not gridlock.

It's a given that that stretch of the 401 will return to gridlock at some point after the project is complete. The only question is how much time it will take.

Transportation Planning 101 tells us that demand will be induced by new road capacity, especially in an environment of population growth. It's impossible to build your way out of gridlock, only to rent a brief period of free-flow. Granted, even if gridlocked, the new configuration will move more vehicles per day and with that bring various improvements to the collective good, but most drivers aren't really concerned about more strangers getting to work. They're concerned about their commute getting shorter. And the cold answer is that it will, but only comparatively briefly.

 

[ShonTron]

I'm pro-transit, but I am also not rabidly anti-car either. I'm for eliminating bottlenecks where they can be removed. I'm okay with a proper and gradual tapering of traffic lanes, so I think the 401 should be widened through here. It should be 5 lanes to Hurontario or Mavis, and 4 lanes to Winston Churchill/407. It's nuts the way that the 401 goes from 6 lanes to 3 within 2 kilometres. The only place worse is the 401 eastbound between Brock and Salem Road, where it also goes from 6 to 3 lanes. Fixing bottlenecks (ie improving efficiency without necessarily increasing capacity over a long stretch.) makes sense.

The HOV lanes are a joke if the MTO isn't serious about it on existing lanes. If the 401 gets them, but they only run between 410 or Hurontario and Mississauga Road/WCB, that's a waste.

 

[nfitz]

The MTO states these are public documents and were presented at a Public Information Centre in April 2008. There's no issue with copyright and making these documents available online for others.

Fair enough ... though the letter doesn't indicate that the MTO is giving licence to people to further distribute (nor could it, without a rather unusual contract between them and their consultant).

On the other hand, if these were 60% design drawings for a PIC rather than final design, then it's quite reasonable that they were always intended for public distribution.

I commend you for looking into this with MTO!

 

[Ravager]

Does anyone know if 403 expansion between Winston Churchill and QEW has been approved?

Lately there has been a back log starting from Ford drive to the 407 Due only to volume.

 

[CDL.TO]

Does anyone know if 403 expansion between Winston Churchill and QEW has been approved?

Lately there has been a back log starting from Ford drive to the 407 Due only to volume.

The bottleneck is caused by the three lanes of the QEW and the two lanes of the 403 merging into only three lanes. Widening this stretch at this time will not solve this problem, and would only lead to denser congestion just a little further down the road.

What I would LOVE to see here, though, is the addition of HOV lanes and dedicated ramps allowing the existing 403 HOV lanes to flow right into the new, currently under construction, QEW HOV lanes.

 

[Haljackey]

The bottleneck is caused by the three lanes of the QEW and the two lanes of the 403 merging into only three lanes. Widening this stretch at this time will not solve this problem, and would only lead to denser congestion just a little further down the road.

What I would LOVE to see here, though, is the addition of HOV lanes and dedicated ramps allowing the existing 403 HOV lanes to flow right into the new, currently under construction, QEW HOV lanes.

If the 403 maintained its 6 lane + 2 HOV lane configuration between the 407 and QEW, I think that would do a lot to help combat congestion.

Also, connecting the HOV systems between the 403 and QEW is a great idea! You see this done all the time in the US, especially in California and Texas. However this may require new flyovers at the junction which might be opposed by local residents (NIMBY because interchange is more visible) or that there isn't enough room to build them.


Back on topic, does anyone have any new news or pics of the ongoing 401 widening? I took these pictures back in May:

They don't show much except that they got the orange lane markings there, which means something is going on.

 

[ShonTron]

The 403 does not necessary need 3+1 lanes in each direction between the QEW and 407, as the extra general-purpose lane would help only to continue that bottleneck around the Ford Plant.

I totally agree with the idea of connecting the QEW and 403 HOV lanes together. That would really create an incentive for carpooling. Thankfully there's little in the way of residents right at the 403/QEW intersection.

The photos above miss all the real work actually going on: there's a new bridge under construction on the west side of Hurontario, plus it looks like there's some major ramp work east of Hurontario to properly channel traffic coming off the 410 and traffic exiting to Hurontario.

 

[Dan416]

I drive by this all the time but never really am able to get a good look due to driving, and even when I'm not driving, the barriers make it hard to see. Although there isn't much to see really I guess.

I never really take Mississauga Rd, but they built the bridge next to it before replacing the other side and now they're doing the same at Hurontario. Doesn't doing that mean the street isn't quite straight anymore? A little offset?

 

[ShonTron]

There might be a bit of an offset, but it won't be really noticeable driving along Hurontario, since the bridge itself is being widened. I'd imagine that the new bridge, able to carry four lanes (though narrow lanes) will open, the old bridge will close and be torn down, and the east side of the bridge constructed, bringing the whole thing up to six lanes and a slight offset to the west. I hope that the new bridge will be able to handle LRT with minimal modifications.

 

[Dan416]

There might be a bit of an offset, but it won't be really noticeable driving along Hurontario, since the bridge itself is being widened. I'd imagine that the new bridge, able to carry four lanes (though narrow lanes) will open, the old bridge will close and be torn down, and the east side of the bridge constructed, bringing the whole thing up to six lanes and a slight offset to the west. I hope that the new bridge will be able to handle LRT with minimal modifications.

That is my hope as well.

 

[Haljackey]

I never really take Mississauga Rd, but they built the bridge next to it before replacing the other side and now they're doing the same at Hurontario. Doesn't doing that mean the street isn't quite straight anymore? A little offset?

There might be a bit of an offset, but it won't be really noticeable driving along Hurontario, since the bridge itself is being widened. I'd imagine that the new bridge, able to carry four lanes (though narrow lanes) will open, the old bridge will close and be torn down, and the east side of the bridge constructed, bringing the whole thing up to six lanes and a slight offset to the west.

They did a similar project in London with the Wellington Road interchange. The 401 was widened and the interchange converted from a 3/4 cloverleaf to a parclo A4. It involved a new overpass which was built like 6 inches next to the old one. The new curve is barely noticeable because the whole interchange was reconfigured around the new crossing, much like Hurontario Street.

You won't see much of a difference because the junction will be entirely different when complete anyways. As for LRT, it doesn't look like the new crossing will support it. Check out these diagrams from Skyscrapercity.

Note the "future collector to express" transfer. I don't think that will be built but that will explain why the westbound collectors are way off to the side. My guess is that the 401's collector / express system will one day be expanded to the Highway 407 interchange or somewhere around there. I think HOV lanes are planned to go all the way to Milton as well.