11th
Senior Member
Ironic isn't it? EV adoption may have actually "saved" the future for single-occupant automobiles.
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W. K. Lis
Superstar
And how would we pay for the highways if the EV don't use gasoline or diesel, which means no fuel taxes?
Steve X
Senior Member
User fees aka road tolls.
Therion
Senior Member
Some US states are increasing various fees on EVs to account for the lack of gas tax from them. Not a fan of those, as it will hinder EV adoption. If only we had a source of revenue that all cars have to pay, like some sort of, I don't know, license plate fee....
allengeorge
Senior Member
Too bad Doug Ford is removing tolls.
Woodbridge_Heights
Senior Member
Announcement on the subject of 413 happening now with the Premier and Minister of Transportation. Still waiting on the presser:
View attachment 384706
Press Release:
Ontario Newsroom
news.ontario.ca
Its a really vague non-announcement featuring 413 and the Bradford Bypass, but mentioning GO and subways as well.
Essentially a "Look, we're doing something" presser, but without any actual progress or milestones being announced so far as I can tell.
A couple of months to the provincial election.
robmausser
Senior Member
There will be a yearly tax on EV ownership, as well as the government will tax EV charging stations. People charge at home but they also use those fast chargers everywhere.
robmausser
Senior Member
I mean he is but those two roads were barely even highways, they are connectors. It was silly to toll them as they were so short people were avoiding them and clogging up streets to get to the 407.
Literally almost no one will use them in the Durham region other than getting to the 407, which is tolled, or 401, they don't really go anywhere of importance there.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
I use the 412 to go to Brooklin all the time without getting on the 407 - but yea, they have limited utility on their own, especially the 418. An interchange at Rossland Road on the 412 would make it a lot more useful.
Even using the 407 at the north end though, no tolls on the 412 make it a lot cheaper. Someone going from North Oshawa or Port Perry down to the 401, getting on at Simcoe St, would pay just $2.67 for the privilege in the morning rush hour versus $5.88 today, again, a lot more reasonable.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
How about an annual vehicle permit? Have a sticker attached to the license plate as a proof-of-payment?
Oh wait...
allengeorge
Senior Member
That’s neither here nor there. There are bus routes that functionally operate as connectors, but we still charge a fare to ride them.
The fact is that we avoid time-of-use user pricing for the most space-inefficient form of transportation. And, this government is doubling down on this strategy of conditioning the public to think of car travel as “free”, leaving any negative externalities (sprawl, pollution, inefficient land use) as an “exercise for the reader”.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
Given the complaints about gas
The 407 is actively avoided like the plague for a significant portion of the population - to the point where a $5 toll charge could save an hour of traffic and they won't pay it. A significant portion of the GTA has an impression that the 407 is so wildly expensive that it is to absolutely never be used at any time, which isn't close to true at all, especially for the Durham portion.
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Northern Light
Superstar
Northern Light
Superstar
I substantially agree with the above, but would add a caveat.
I favour tolls, for clarity, a per km charge for driving on urban freeways where alternative choices exist.
However, I'm not a huge fan of varying the rate over the course of the day.
What's been found with electricity is that much vaunted 'Smart Meters' did very little to load-shift, because as it turns out, most people can't choose when they are home and require heating or a/c; or when they can do the laundry (when their home).
Its also rather unfair to shift workers who may be penalized for being home during peak-usage times.
To take this back to the roads, most people do not determine their hours of employment, which for the majority, are in the 8am-5pm range; but certainly many have different, but fixed hours.
A varying toll rate across time implies that we are trying to encourage load-shift, but there is little evidence that this is effective, so far as I can discern. We would need a culture of flex-time to be in much greater ascendancy to see people load-shift; their commutes, even then, we would need more flexible childcare and school hours to make it work.
I favour a uniform toll rate across all times to encourage mode-shift, not load/temporal shift.
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innsertnamehere
Superstar
Apologies, yes, I meant prices.