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Roads: GTA West Corridor—Highway 413

afransen said:
407 is definitely not at capacity off peak and thus toll rates are too high.
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Reread what he said:
The 407 is "full" in the sense that it's as full as it can be while retaining the "uncongested" signature it's entire brand is built around. Adding thousands of trucks to it daily would likely tip that balance and force the 407 to adjust it's toll rates to ensure it can continue to be that.
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The 407 only makes sense as a business if its completely uncongested and free flowing. If it isn't, then its a waste of money and thus not worth using compared to alternatives like Highway 7 or the 403.
 
Do the tolls on Highway 407 change based on the current congestion or are the rates fixed for time of day? If keeping the highway at half capacity (or some other number) is preferred, then that means tolls should be adjusted so off peak should have the same amount of traffic as during rush hours.
 
Fixed rates for the time of day. In 2020 they were going to introduce higher summer rates than winter, but that didn’t happen as rates have been frozen at winter 2020 rates since then.
 
Leo_Chan said:
Do the tolls on Highway 407 change based on the current congestion or are the rates fixed for time of day? If keeping the highway at half capacity (or some other number) is preferred, then that means tolls should be adjusted so off peak should have the same amount of traffic as during rush hours.
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They are fixed for the time of day, with the price during rush hours being more expensive than off peak... obviously.

Honestly doing congestion based tolls doesn't make sense. The 407 is already quite expensive, and unless you're willing to introduce electronic signs at every interchange to tell people what the current price is, I think its best to have a consistent pricing scheme that anyone can search up online, rather than a message saying "it's $x right now, but god know what it will be tomorrow".
 
cd concept said:
And so is moving earth, dumping alot of gravel stone etc on to the ground to raise and level the highway off. A viaduct style bridge in sensitive areas like the marsh and valleys areas is the way to go. China has high speed rail viaducts several storeys high running above farmland etc. Hardly disturbing the land except for the pylons that hold the viaduct railway underneath it.
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The costs of building tunnels and viaducts is not even comparable with building an at grade road. An interchange like 401-403-410 or 401-427 would cost in excess of $1 billion if built today. (Turcot interchange in Montreal cost $4.3 billion to rebuild, although it included approach roads). By comparison, 401 expansion to Milton is 18 km of 10-12 lane highway at around $850 million.
 
Deadpool X said:
The costs of building tunnels and viaducts is not even comparable with building an at grade road. An interchange like 401-403-410 or 401-427 would cost in excess of $1 billion if built today. (Turcot interchange in Montreal cost $4.3 billion to rebuild, although it included approach roads). By comparison, 401 expansion to Milton is 18 km of 10-12 lane highway at around $850 million.
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That the price you'll have to pay to keep environmentalists happy. Bridging over marsh and ravine areas with viaducts.
 
cd concept said:
That the price you'll have to pay to keep environmentalists happy. Bridging over marsh and ravine areas with viaducts.
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And that's why this price tag will make the highway unviable to build. I am not saying why or why not we should build viaducts or tunnels. I am just replying to your question why tunneling or going elevated will not economically work.
 
Deadpool X said:
And that's why this price tag will make the highway unviable to build. I am not saying why or why not we should build viaducts or tunnels. I am just replying to your question why tunneling or going elevated will not economically work.
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I'm only talking about elevating the road just through the sensitive areas. The farm land will be developed anyway in the future. Think of this project like the Eglinton Crosstown LRT. They had no choice but to tunnel through the old section because the road is not wide enough. This costly infrastructure scenario should also be applied to the ravine and marsh areas. To minimize the disturbances of the ecosystem at what ever the cost would be.
 
cd concept said:
I'm only talking about elevating the road just through the sensitive areas. The farm land will be developed anyway in the future. Think of this project like the Eglinton Crosstown LRT. They had no choice but to tunnel through the old section because the road is not wide enough. This costly infrastructure scenario should also be applied to the ravine and marsh areas. To minimize the disturbances of the ecosystem at what ever the cost would be.
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I am not sure if you fully appreciate the costs of elevated roadways. Elevating 10% of the road won't increase the costs by 10% or 20%. It may increase the cost by 50% or 100%. Also, because it is hard to widen the bridges, they may have to build them for 6 lanes on the get go for futureproofing eventual widening.
 
Deadpool X said:
I am not sure if you fully appreciate the costs of elevated roadways. Elevating 10% of the road won't increase the costs by 10% or 20%. It may increase the cost by 50% or 100%. Also, because it is hard to widen the bridges, they may have to build them for 6 lanes on the get go for futureproofing eventual widening.
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Bloor Street viaduct had to be built to connect Danforth with Bloor and so on! The Golden Horseshoe combined statistical area is about 10 million right now. And Stats Canada predicts that another 25 years it'll probably be at15 million. And 3.5 million of it will be in the GTA area. Were going to need more Highways to support this and other areas. You can't see that the Toronto area is slowly becoming the New York City of the north lol!
 
I tend to think the 413 was a non-issue for most this election, despite the polarization. Yes, the PC's can legitimately say they have a mandate to build it, but I doubt the more than 10% of even their own voters went to their polling station with this in mind.
 
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cd concept said:
Bloor Street viaduct had to be built to connect Danforth with Bloor and so on! The Golden Horseshoe combined statistical area is about 10 million right now. And Stats Canada predicts that another 25 years it'll probably be at15 million. And 3.5 million of it will be in the GTA area. Were going to need more Highways to support this and other areas. You can't see that the Toronto area is slowly becoming the New York City of the north lol!
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You are on a totally different tangent now.
 
Deadpool X said:
You are on a totally different tangent now.
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If your talking about me using population stats to justify the reason for building highways. That's a must have as well as transit to keep the growing population moving. Because northern part of Vaughan and southern Caledon municipality areas will be developed in the future . Butting up against the moraine in King and northern parts of Caledon.
 
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