Roads: GTA West Corridor—Highway 413

[Northern Light]

And replace it with what? We need transit alternatives

I don't disagree that transit alternatives are needed; though, as I oppose sprawl here, I might choose to site such alternatives elsewhere.

But note that in the above, I was merely answering a question about where others stood and not proffering my own plan.

IF, some measure of sprawl must happen here (and I hope it does not) then, indeed let it be served by transit.

My official position in filings w/the government is that a corridor here should be retained, expressly for rail and not road.

But if sprawl can be discouraged, then perhaps that investment should go elsewhere first.

There are many options and I don't wish to digress the thread into a transit fantasy map.

Suffice to say there are better choices than 413, in my opinion.

 

[north-of-anything]

Ontario is building enough snow and ice roads to span almost the entire country

In southern Ontario, most know of ice roads only through sensationalized reality television shows, but in the province's northern hinterland, these...

www.blogto.com

As a point of comparison, we cut through 3170 km of forest for 21 000 people. No judgement, just the facts.

That is a really disingenuous argument. Those ice roads are the ONLY form of road transportation for many of those communities, and there's nowhere in that article - or any source that I could find, for that matter - that says trees are actively being cut down this year. These winter roads need to be rebuilt every year because they melt in the spring.

This corridor already has existing road infrastructure, permanently, year-round. And yet somehow a six-lane highway through some of the country's best farmland is the only solution.

 

[maxt797]

Am I the only one who can't wait for this highway? It will make my drive easier in so many different ways (south Etobicoke to Barrie, to northern Brampton, from Milton to Vaughan, etc etc ) i find it very strategic and if done right beneficial in the long term

 

[wopchop]

Am I the only one who can't wait for this highway? It will make my drive easier in so many different ways (south Etobicoke to Barrie, to northern Brampton, from Milton to Vaughan, etc etc ) i find it very strategic and if done right beneficial in the long term

so for hypothetical Milton to Vaughan trip:
Highway 413: 52 km from 401 to 400, @ 120 km/h = 26 min
Highway 407: 33 km from 401 to 400, @ 120 km/h = 16.5 min

But what you lose in time you save in tolls - ~$17,95 one way in rush hour

413 would also land you north of basically everything in Vaughan, as it was planned for north of Kirby Rd, so add that time too. 407 to Kirby Rd along the 400 is roughly 11-12 km.

You are right about one thing though - while the 407 is a hassle free drive, I definitely wouldn't classify 407 as an easy drive. Every minute that I drive on it, I can feel the rapacious spectre of those greedy bastards in my pocket, and that weighs on my soul.

 

[innsertnamehere]

so for hypothetical Milton to Vaughan trip:
Highway 413: 52 km from 401 to 400, @ 120 km/h = 26 min
Highway 407: 33 km from 401 to 400, @ 120 km/h = 16.5 min

But what you lose in time you save in tolls - ~$17,95 one way in rush hour

413 would also land you north of basically everything in Vaughan, as it was planned for north of Kirby Rd, so add that time too. 407 to Kirby Rd along the 400 is roughly 11-12 km.

You are right about one thing though - while the 407 is a hassle free drive, I definitely wouldn't classify 407 as an easy drive. Every minute that I drive on it, I can feel the rapacious spectre of those greedy bastards in my pocket, and that weighs on my soul.

Not a fair comparison as you are measuring those distances to different end points. The 413 would be longer but as you mentioned will be toll-free and will only be a few km longer, not 20km like you are suggesting as you didn’t measure the distance it takes to go up the 400 from the 407.

 

[wopchop]

Not a fair comparison as you are measuring those distances to different end points. The 413 would be longer but as you mentioned will be toll-free and will only be a few km longer, not 20km like you are suggesting as you didn’t measure the distance it takes to go up the 400 from the 407.

He mentioned a trip from Milton to Vaughan.
The trip from Milton to most of Vaughan is longer via 413 than 407. If you are going somewhere on the very north end, then sure the delta between the two is less.
There is basically nothing at the proposed end point of the 413 in Vaughan.
Certainly it is cheaper on tolls.

 

[kamira51]

But lest you believe all sprawl is immutable; we recently saw lands up near Lake Simcoe downzoned and turned over to the local Conservation Authority for permanent protection after development had been previously approved.

I'm not naive and recognize that won't happen for each remaining acre of the white belt, and probably not 1/2 either, though I find that disappointing just the same.

But the more than can be saved the better.

Now that I did not know about, that's quite interesting and very good to hear that such a thing is possible in this province.

 

[TRONto]

Am I the only one who can't wait for this highway? It will make my drive easier in so many different ways (south Etobicoke to Barrie, to northern Brampton, from Milton to Vaughan, etc etc ) i find it very strategic and if done right beneficial in the long term

I'd say the forum users are split on the 413. Since we are adding a million people to the GTA over the next decade and the area around the 413 is already planned for development it seems like a slam dunk that this needs to be built.

 

[kamira51]

He mentioned a trip from Milton to Vaughan.
The trip from Milton to most of Vaughan is longer via 413 than 407. If you are going somewhere on the very north end, then sure the delta between the two is less.
There is basically nothing at the proposed end point of the 413 in Vaughan.
Certainly it is cheaper on tolls.

The biggest benefit in my opinion is it allows you to go around the cities saving you alot of time. Unlike the current more direct route that can slow you down.

 

[wopchop]

The biggest benefit in my opinion is it allows you to go around the cities saving you alot of time. Unlike the current more direct route that can slow you down.

It is a shorter route via 401, yes. But not vs 407.

401 to 400 via 413 is 52 km. It would leave you at the King OnRoute.
401 to 400 via 407 is 33km + 12.5km to the proposed 413 interchange = 45.5 km

So it is actually a slightly longer route via 413, because it is not as direct.

However, what the highway will do is save the public money on tolls, and that gets us to one of the real reasons this is is being pushed to buy votes.

 

[TRONto]

It is a shorter route via 401, yes. But not vs 407.

401 to 400 via 413 is 52 km. It would leave you at the King OnRoute.
401 to 400 via 407 is 33km + 12.5km to the proposed 413 interchange = 45.5 km

So it is actually a slightly longer route via 413, because it is not as direct.

However, what the highway will do is save the public money on tolls, and that gets us to one of the real reasons this is is being pushed to buy votes.

If the 407 wasn't tolled, we wouldn't have a pressing need for the 413 so in part, that's definitely true.

 

[KevinT]

Am I the only one who can't wait for this highway? It will make my drive easier in so many different ways (south Etobicoke to Barrie, to northern Brampton, from Milton to Vaughan, etc etc ) i find it very strategic and if done right beneficial in the long term

It will save me 10 or 15 minutes of aggravation for the half dozen or so trips I do from Kitchener to parts north a few times a year. For a few years, until it too becomes just as congested as everything else. Is that worth bulldozing through the green belt to me? No.

 

[Transportfan]

401 to 400 via 413 is 52 km. It would leave you at the King OnRoute.

I believe the King City OnRoute is smack dab on the location of the future interchange.

 

[wopchop]

If the 407 wasn't tolled, we wouldn't have a pressing need for the 413 so in part, that's definitely true.

Does it not strike you as a little wrong that the pressing need for building a new highway is being driven by the existence of an overpriced toll?
That to solve what is essentially a paperwork/contract issue, we need to spend billions of dollars, pave over 52 km of agricultural/green lands, lay thousands of cubic yards of concrete and/or asphalt, emit thousands of metric tons of C02, etc?
That's crazy.

 

[leopetr]

Does it not strike you as a little wrong that the pressing need for building a new highway is being driven by the existence of an overpriced toll?
That to solve what is essentially a paperwork/contract issue, we need to spend billions of dollars, pave over 52 km of agricultural/green lands, lay thousands of cubic yards of concrete and/or asphalt, emit thousands of metric tons of C02, etc?
That's crazy.

407 being tolled is a figleaf. The urgency behind the 413 is Ford campaign donors that want to plop down subdivisions on farmland in North Brampton, and need the 413 to juice the prices.