Dichotomy
Banned
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alklay
Senior Member
We can't maintain decent sidewalks. How on earth are we going to maintain a 'beautiful' underside of a highway?
Based upon this city's history of beautifying anything, the idea of beautifying the Gardiner should be a non-starter. Knock her down!
Based upon this city's history of beautifying anything, the idea of beautifying the Gardiner should be a non-starter. Knock her down!
Archivist
Senior Member
I've walked in lots of crossings like that in Tokyo and Seoul, and while they are somewhat more photogenic than the Gardiner, they are very far from pleasant places to be. I find it very funny that people can make the claim that crossing a University Avenue or Avenue Road sized boulevard is a "barrier", can claim that walking over to the beginning of a stairway (not at the corner of the street, note), climbing the stairs, walking over the roadway, and then down again, is easier. I've done it, a lot, and it gets tired really quickly.
The should also consider that, unlike the pretty pictures from Shanghai, ours would need to have ramps for disabled, which would add to the concrete surrounding you.
Also, in the examples provided, there were stairways at all four sides of an intersection. In my experience, it is more common to have to cross a street and walk some distance out of your way to the single staircase, cross under the expressway, and then cross another street.
No thanks. Just rip it.
The should also consider that, unlike the pretty pictures from Shanghai, ours would need to have ramps for disabled, which would add to the concrete surrounding you.
Also, in the examples provided, there were stairways at all four sides of an intersection. In my experience, it is more common to have to cross a street and walk some distance out of your way to the single staircase, cross under the expressway, and then cross another street.
No thanks. Just rip it.
Mustapha
Senior Member
Some pictures of the Gardiner in my neighbourhood (taken yesterday)
The Gardiner, as seen from Cherry Street.
The Gardiner and Parliament Street.
The Gardiner, looking east
Somebody should make the railroads bury their trackage. New York City (Manhattan) did it.
Dichotomy
Banned
Chicago has done a good job of burying their tracks, too. But they did it a long time ago, and we just don't have the money.
wyliepoon
Senior Member
Get Miller to ban anything but electric trains from entering downtown. That's how New York did it.
dunkalunk
Senior Member
We'd probably need electrified track and federal and provincial funding first. HSR Anyone? I really can't see that embankment going anywhere in the near future.
Whoaccio
Senior Member
Just thinking out loud, but what if we hid it better? Alot of cities like Berlin & London have elevated rail tracks, but you can never really tell from looking @ a typical street. It would be a lot cheaper than burying them, with most of the same effect.
1.) Shore up the embankment,
2.) Remove the slopes, just one vertical bricked (for the love of god not more concrete in Toronto) wall.
3.)Preferably, build 3-4 story buildings along each wall, if done right the rail berm shouldn't even be visible from street level.
4.) Beautify the underpasses, the current state of things is reminiscent of some horrible East Bloc country.
I've included a simple diagram:
Attachments
BobBob
Senior Member
Great idea! Seems like the real estate created by such a conversion would more than pay for the project, AND improve the urbanistic situation a lot.
wyliepoon
Senior Member
Whoaccio: You should have saved your idea for the ThinkToronto competition.
http://spacing.ca/thinktoronto/competition-categories/categories-specific-area-design/
http://spacing.ca/thinktoronto/competition-categories/categories-specific-area-design/
urbanfan89
Active Member
Dayam! I was going for something quite similar for ThinkToronto!
Hope they're not too similar!
Hope they're not too similar!
Earlscourt_Lad
Active Member
Looking from above (merci, Mssr. Google) the banking for the embankment doesn't take up all that much space as it is fairly steep. Therefore, I reckon the buildings that would be on either side are going to be exceptionally narrow, unless you're removing a track or two.
G
Gladman
Guest
Great post, Dichotomy. I didn't think pro-Gardiner people were allowed here at UT.
Dichotomy
Banned
That's to be determined.
I believe we are in the majority, but unfortunately the majority rarely rules in a supposed democracy any more. The last municipal elections are a perfect example: not a single issue that matters to most people was raised (other than the perennial topic of crime and punishment). Every election, the 'homeless' and poverty industry hijacks the agenda and the candidates allow it because it is safer than having to make real statements about what matters: infrastructure decay, transportation issues, trucking garbage to Michigan, etc. And the experts wonder why only 40% bother to vote any more.
The automobile has become an easy target amongst the politically active set, and the Gardiner is the flashpoint. Don't confound opponents of the Gardiner with facts like the railway tracks are uglier and more of an impediment to the lake. Don't muddy the issue with the fact that this is a city that has to function, not Algonquin Park. Don't point out that there currently are NO north-south routes that move beyond a crawl between the Gardiner and the 401, thanks to poor urban planning in the past. Don't bother to bring up the fact that the parks we do have are empty for 9 months of the year because this is Canada, not the south of France.
No, no, no: let's destroy what little we have because the tree huggers have declared that motorists are the source of all evil in the Universe and should be banished to Cobourg.
G
Gladman
Guest
I agree we are in the majority, but not on this forum (I have been luring here for years). Elections are participated and won by the left because their policies mainly involve sharing the wealth of the taxpayers too busy making money.
I think the province needs to take back control of the Gardiner, plus take the DVP away from Toronto. The province already has the DVP from 401 to Steeles (thankfully). How long before the DVP turns into 1 bus and 1 bike lane? I'm tired of the DVP signs saying take a bike/find a carpool. They are supposed to used for traffic info, not Millerlite propoganda.
The other quietly ignored part of the demo the Gardiner announcement is the death of the Front St. Extension. This, while 50-100,000 new residents are plopped in between Spadina and Dufferin, south of King St. How does not building a new road in this area make sense?
Keep yelling!