JJTheJetPln
New Member
Those photos reminded me of the onset of covid and the request of everyone to stay at home. I was driving downtown and wondering why there weren't that many cars on the road. It often felt like this.
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Roads: Gardiner Expressway catch-all, incl. Hybrid Design (2015-onwards)
- Thread starter jozl
- Start date
Those photos reminded me of the onset of covid and the request of everyone to stay at home. I was driving downtown and wondering why there weren't that many cars on the road. It often felt like this.
J Bacon
New Member
I think the point is that if you're not going to expand roads fine, but don't remove road capacity in a growing region - that's probably where the anger starts.
You can build transit and also maintain road capacity.
Also when considering these scenarios the environmental cost of driving should be updated to assume that the majority of cars on the road will be electric.
evandyk
Senior Member
Road capacity is typically increased when you convert lanes from car lanes to more efficient modes of transportation like bikes and buses.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
like most topics I think there is room for a good bit of nuance here.
Streets like Bloor St downtown aren't really able to accommodate cycling lanes without whacking a car lane, correct.
But streets like Eglinton? The City literally had detailed plans drawn up showing protected cycling lanes on the street with 4-lanes of car traffic maintained. Metrolinx built over the Crosstown stations to that design. Now that it's the City's responsibility to fill in the gaps, they changed their mind are making Eglinton 2-lanes instead with full-time curbside parking.
Most of the suburban areas of the city have significant right of way width to accommodate separated, high quality cycling facilities as well as 4 car lanes. Look at Finch - Metrolinx built a new LRT and protected cycling lanes across the corridor without removing lanes. Toronto just opts to cut auto lanes because it's cheaper.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
There is a difference between theoretical capacity and median travel times / actual throughput.
A street like Bloor St W through central downtown likely had overall throughput increased with bike lanes. I would be surprised if Eglinton Avenue or Bloor in Etobicoke is seeing overall higher throughput though as cyclist volumes are significantly lower.
There are ways to do infrastructure right, and I think there is some valid criticism of the City right now where their response to basically any infrastructure question is "cut it to two lanes". The City's plans for roads like Eglinton, Parkside, and especially Park Lawn are emblematic of this, I think.
To be clear I think Ford's bike lane ban is also ridiculous. There is room for a lot of nuance here.
Generally I think the City needs to shift from "quick win" cycling projects involving mostly paint and removing car lanes to more expensive, but higher quality projects which add bike lanes to roads in suburban areas while generally maintaining significant automotive capacity as well. Bloor West Village for example could accommodate dedicated cycling infrastructure while maintaining 4 lanes, for example. So could Eglinton. Parkside could see improved pedestrian infrastructure and a dedicated cycling path routed through High Park adjacent to the road. Etc.
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J Bacon
New Member
So then you'd have even more capacity by all metrics, not just road capacity in terms of bodies by maintaining existing lanes, putting transit above or below the road and also adding fully separate bike lanes.
J Bacon
New Member
Cheaper, easier and faster to appease everyone and please no one.
bearcat
New Member
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Unfortunately I feel it all comes down to cost. It costs money to demolish and then build new curbs and to move streetlights and hydro poles. From what I understand this is only done when a road is due for major reconstruction due to age, and at that point "higher quality" bike infrastructure can be added.
In my opinion, if the city only did "higher quality" bike infrastructure most of the bike lane network we have now would not exist as they city would not have had the money to implement it.
I am sure whoever is in charge of planning cycling projects in the city also wants "higher quality" infrastructure, but there is only so much money to spend.
It would be wonderful if Doug Ford perhaps announced funding for such "higher quality" bike lanes that do not take away automotive road capacity along with his ban.
zang
Senior Member
Considering Toronto has plans currently in the works for Yonge and other main streets that *do* take lanes (rather, parking 80% of the time), or even the car-free area planned for Yonge & Dundas, I don’t see the city just going along. And it’ll be yet another court case for the province to spend millions just to lose.
My only hope is that the eventual election that any party spends money on ads to tally up all the court challenges and their costs and losses. The value surpasses that of the gas plant scandal many times over at this point.
My only hope is that the eventual election that any party spends money on ads to tally up all the court challenges and their costs and losses. The value surpasses that of the gas plant scandal many times over at this point.
kotsy
Senior Member
The final sections of girder supports have been installed and they've started installing forms for the guardrails.
