Riverdale

[js97]

There is only one westbound street north of Gerrard that it affects - Langley.

What are you talking about?

Someone coming off the gardiner/lakesure that lives on Withrow, Logan, Abermarle, etc etc... it's all going to get rediverted to Logan/Simpson...

On Paula's dime?

 

[Urban Shocker]

This really impacts all those that live on westbound streets north of Gerrard.

There are only two westbound streets that lead off of Carlaw when you're heading north from Gerrard - Simpson and Langley. You can still turn west on Simpson, so Langley is the only one that's affected. Carlaw is one-way southbound from the Danforth to Riverdale, so you can't continue north on it - even if you did, and turned west off of it, you'd end up in Withrow Park.

 

[Skeezix]

There are only two westbound streets that lead off of Carlaw when you're heading north from Gerrard - Simpson and Langley. You can still turn west on Simpson, so Langley is the only one that's affected. Carlaw is one-way southbound from the Danforth to Riverdale, so you can't continue north on it - even if you did, and turned west off of it, you'd end up in Withrow Park.

Yes and no. You are correct that westbound streets north of Riverdale will not be affected. But traffic that turned off Carlaw onto Langley will likely be redirected onto Simpson and parts of Logan, so those streets will be impacted. To what degree, I do not know, as I have no idea how many cars turned west off Carlaw onto Langley. But there always seemed to be several cars waiting to make that turn whenever I drove past, so js97 is correct when he says this move is putting more traffic onto other residential streets.

 

[Urban Shocker]

I think you summed up the problem with Carlaw and Langley in a nutshell with: "But there always seemed to be several cars waiting to make that turn whenever I drove past". I think it's the waiting, for north and southbound traffic, that's the problem - and the presence of the crosswalk creates a sort of mini-perfect-storm at that time of day in that location.

To what degree will Simpson and Logan be affected? Well, who would bother driving along Simpson ( or Langley ) in order to get to Broadview, rather than going along Gerrard anyway? Indeed, there's a good case to be made that long residential streets uninterrupted by cross-streets ( other than Howland ) shouldn't be used in this way at rush hour when the kids are coming home from school, if an arterial such as Gerrard is available. But, if someone is determined to drive west on Langley at rush hour, they could still do so - by going along Gerrard or Simpson, turning up Logan, and turning left onto Langley.

 

[Skeezix]

I think you summed up the problem with Carlaw and Langley in a nutshell with: "But there always seemed to be several cars waiting to make that turn whenever I drove past". I think it's the waiting, for north and southbound traffic, that's the problem - and the presence of the crosswalk creates a sort of mini-perfect-storm at that time of day in that location.

To what degree will Simpson and Logan be affected? Well, who would bother driving along Simpson ( or Langley ) in order to get to Broadview, rather than going along Gerrard anyway? Indeed, there's a good case to be made that long residential streets uninterrupted by cross-streets ( other than Howland ) shouldn't be used in this way at rush hour when the kids are coming home from school, if an arterial such as Gerrard is available. But, if someone is determined to drive west on Langley at rush hour, they could still do so - by going along Gerrard or Simpson, turning up Logan, and turning left onto Langley.

You're making all these assumptions. I've never encountered a "perfect storm" at that intersection. Like many intersections in the area, it seemed to accommodate turning cars, cars going straight through, and pedestrians. Being an old streetcar line, Carlaw is wide enough there so that cars waiting to turn do not impede other traffic, and the pedestrian crossing doesn't create long queues. And why would the traffic turning left be headed be headed to Broadview? Wouldn't it mostly be trying to get into the neighbourhood? It's fine to suggest that such cars should be using Gerrard, but that just transfers that traffic to other residential streets when they do enter the neighbourhood.

 

[Urban Shocker]

The traffic that used to turn off of Langley between 4 and 6 p.m., including that which was destined for the short stretch of Langley between Carlaw and Logan, can still get to where it was going, but the northbound and southbound "waiting" that you noticed at Langley will obviously be reduced. The bottleneck that sometimes occurs there doesn't seem to occur at Simpson, and I suspect that the crosswalk has something to do with it. You questioned the degree to which Logan and Simpson would be affected, and your guess is as good as mine, but the traffic that's redirected onto the short stretch of Simpson between Carlaw and Logan and the short stretch of Logan between Simpson and Langley - which would be additional traffic for those stretches of streets only - can still get to where it's going without involving other streets. As I say, I doubt if Simpson and Langley between Logan and Broadview will be impacted.

 

[js97]

Question, for those living on:

-Langley (obviously)
-Withrow, West of Logan
-Bain East of Logan,
-Riverdale, East of Logan
-Logan, North of Langley
-SParkhall
-Abemarle
-Ingham
-Grandview
-maybe even Hogarth and sections of Hampton


Logical route for somone comming off the gardiner up Carlaw would be to turn off Langley (I do this fairly often):

There will be a lot of cars being diverted onto Logan and Simpson...

And yes, there are plenty of cars on those streets... No matter how bad Riverdalians want to come across as 'environmentally friendly', everyone has a car or two... most just can't be bothered enough to complain... Interestingly enough, Langley was one of those streets I saw have an 'impromptu' street festival with closed road signs and hockey a few weeks back

 

[Urban Shocker]

Impromptu? Surely you must get a permit to shut down a street for most of the day, like that? Notices for the street party went out to locals a month or two before it happened.

I stood on Carlaw for a while, just after 4 o'clock today, and noticed that considerably more of the southbound traffic turned onto Langley than turned onto Simpson. I'm assuming than much of it was destined to go northbound on Logan, since Withrow Park blocks access to the streets west of Logan for traffic coming down Pape ( and Carlaw ). McConnell is the only east/westbound street north of the Park that's south of the Danny that they could take as an alternative. I also noticed half a dozen cars lined up in the northbound Carlaw curbside lane ( as I often do ) waiting to turn into the No Frills gas station; cars exiting from Riverdale Plaza ( or whatever it's called ) also add to congestion at that point.

I suppose it would've been a lot quieter on Carlaw today if the pedestrian bridge hadn't been built over the tracks at Pape and Gerrard 35 years ago, with all the southbound Pape traffic now diverted.

 

[Toronto Rocks]

Impromptu? Surely you must get a permit to shut down a street for most of the day, like that? Notices for the street party went out to locals a month or two before it happened.


Residents on Riverdale Ave, did not receive any notice of the "Street Party" or any notice of the new turning restrictions.

 

[UserNameToronto]

Here's something I don't "get" about Riverdale (North of Gerrard):

Most of the houses seem to be built c.1880-1905, and seem to be "Victorian" in design. There is then a layer of square, bulky "Edwardian" homes, built maybe 1905-1920. But then, for some reason, there are a bunch of arts & crafts homes that seem to be post 1920 - ones that look they could belong in East York or something. But, by the 1920s, wouldn't Riverdale proper have been completely built out?

In Cabbagetown, there are only a few streets of these Craftsman/Arts & Crafts homes on the site of the Toronto Hospital, so they were essentially early infill (link http://www.cabbagetownpa.ca/styles/arts-and-crafts ). Why do streets like Riverdale Ave, and Ingham in Riverdale have homes like this? More century-old infill? And if so, what was there before?

 

[Urban Shocker]

I think the streets around Gerrard and Broadview were laid out a decade or two earlier because they were closer to the downtown, and had easier access from downtown, and because the Viaduct hadn't been built yet.

 

[Skeezix]

The traffic that used to turn off of Langley between 4 and 6 p.m., including that which was destined for the short stretch of Langley between Carlaw and Logan, can still get to where it was going, but the northbound and southbound "waiting" that you noticed at Langley will obviously be reduced. The bottleneck that sometimes occurs there doesn't seem to occur at Simpson, and I suspect that the crosswalk has something to do with it. You questioned the degree to which Logan and Simpson would be affected, and your guess is as good as mine, but the traffic that's redirected onto the short stretch of Simpson between Carlaw and Logan and the short stretch of Logan between Simpson and Langley - which would be additional traffic for those stretches of streets only - can still get to where it's going without involving other streets. As I say, I doubt if Simpson and Langley between Logan and Broadview will be impacted.

I drive that stretch every day (and walk it about twice a week), and the number of northbound cars turning west on Langley and on Simpson are roughly the same, and it's an exaggeration to call either a bottleneck. In restricting left-turns for northbound traffic at Langley, even the local Councillor didn't try to argue there was a bottleneck at that location.

And you are correct about the additional traffic on those stretches of Carlaw and Logan. I never said otherwise. I was simply taking issue with your earlier assertion that Langley is the only affected street. I have probably posted way too many times here in support of what are really only two simple points I have: the reasons given for the new turning restriction are likely not the reasons why the turning restriction was sought, and this all affects more than just Langley.

 

[Skeezix]

I suppose it would've been a lot quieter on Carlaw today if the pedestrian bridge hadn't been built over the tracks at Pape and Gerrard 35 years ago, with all the southbound Pape traffic now diverted.

Yes!

 

[nfitz]

I suppose it would've been a lot quieter on Carlaw today if the pedestrian bridge hadn't been built over the tracks at Pape and Gerrard 35 years ago, with all the southbound Pape traffic now diverted.

Was it a level crossing then?

 

[GKW]

I didn't think street direction would be such a active topic...