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Project Niagara DEAD (Niagara-On-The-Lake)
- Thread starter rdaner
- Start date
InnocentBystander
New Member
CDL.TO
Moderator
Thanks for posting.
tim callighen
New Member
Missing NOTLers? Not so.
We aren't missing.
Several of the post-ers above are my calmer neighbours.
We have formed a local citizens group called Harmony Residents Group.
We are working to influence the outcome in a way that benefits our community as a whole.
We intend to be, and are being, proactive now that we know about this issue.
We want to make sure that this project is revenue neutral for NOTL and that we are not expected to pay for all the roadwork, sewer re-direction, future maintenace, etc. to benefit a private entity, in the short- and long- term.
We want to ensure that the endangered species (flora and fauna) in the carolinian forest on this site are protected (remember, its been closed to the public for a century).
And we want to ensure that the process is open and transparent for all stakeholders, something that it hasn't been for the last few years.
We aren't missing.
Several of the post-ers above are my calmer neighbours.
We have formed a local citizens group called Harmony Residents Group.
We are working to influence the outcome in a way that benefits our community as a whole.
We intend to be, and are being, proactive now that we know about this issue.
We want to make sure that this project is revenue neutral for NOTL and that we are not expected to pay for all the roadwork, sewer re-direction, future maintenace, etc. to benefit a private entity, in the short- and long- term.
We want to ensure that the endangered species (flora and fauna) in the carolinian forest on this site are protected (remember, its been closed to the public for a century).
And we want to ensure that the process is open and transparent for all stakeholders, something that it hasn't been for the last few years.
Queen of Niagara
New Member
Closed to the public - not virgin forest!
Closed??!!
Do you mean closed as in, except for military use. It was a rifle range, tank range, etc, until very recently. Military, police forces, and others were firing live and practice ammo in there for over eighty years.
Not to mention the armed forces using it as a bivouac and practice area - the whole property, including the Carolinian forest, was basically a big campground and hiking area for the army.
Speaking of which - what effects on wildlife and flowers do you think a music festival will have that are greater than guns, grenades and tanks?
Who is in this "Harmony residents Group" anyway. How many of your neighbours exactly? 5? 10?
Closed??!!
Do you mean closed as in, except for military use. It was a rifle range, tank range, etc, until very recently. Military, police forces, and others were firing live and practice ammo in there for over eighty years.
Not to mention the armed forces using it as a bivouac and practice area - the whole property, including the Carolinian forest, was basically a big campground and hiking area for the army.
Speaking of which - what effects on wildlife and flowers do you think a music festival will have that are greater than guns, grenades and tanks?
Who is in this "Harmony residents Group" anyway. How many of your neighbours exactly? 5? 10?
egotrippin
Senior Member
haha, my god man. You have the nerve to call forum members here ignorant? Did you even read what you just wrote? Attacking an entire city's worth of citizens with false and idiotic stereotypes. I normally wouldn't bother pursuing this so late in the thread, but you really make it hard for myself or anyone to give two shits (pardon the language) about you and your viewpoint.
Why not address the matter civilly, instead of scapegoating not only Toronto but Toronto forumers for the apparent 'ravaging destruction' of your quaint little town. Also, if you could read, you'd have realized the person in question that you've attacked not only walks through "your" town but used live there as well. I use your loosely, because other than owning your property, I don't imagine you contribute much to the town or society in general. Apart from, of course, yelling angrily from your porch or at your computer anytime something ruffles your feathers. And the rest of Ontario calls us condescending and big-headed.
An Informed Supporter
New Member
Time for Civility
Thanks for your comments--well said!! Your point re community involvement is right on the money. People who just live within their own four walls and don't seem to be aware of the contributions others are making for the good of the whole, are always the first out the door -- talking before they listen!
I took the time to get the facts.....anyone who listens will hear all the information that is available from the project consultant. And if you hear the facts, you'll see that the professionals working on this are really tuned into the special historic and natural qualities of the site and the town--that's why it's the NUMBER ONE choice of location.
Thanks for your comments--well said!! Your point re community involvement is right on the money. People who just live within their own four walls and don't seem to be aware of the contributions others are making for the good of the whole, are always the first out the door -- talking before they listen!
I took the time to get the facts.....anyone who listens will hear all the information that is available from the project consultant. And if you hear the facts, you'll see that the professionals working on this are really tuned into the special historic and natural qualities of the site and the town--that's why it's the NUMBER ONE choice of location.
InnocentBystander
New Member
some local press
local press on issue
Just imagine ...; Translating big dreams into reality would be music to the ears of boosters of a world-class festival and amphitheatre in Niagara
Posted By MATTHEW VAN DONGEN Standard Staff
Updated 6 hours ago
It's all about imagination, right now. Imagine orchestral overtures of Beethoven wafting over the lakeshore just outside Niagara-on-the-Lake.
A wide, green lawn hidden by blankets and about 9,000 music lovers.
Another 2,400 folks seated in a covered pavilion built to accentuate the sound of a professional orchestra.
Encircle the whole scene with Carolinian forest and throw in a breathtaking view of Lake Ontario.
Kari Cullen sees it all, where others see only lonely lands fenced off along Lakeshore Road.
"Imagine a beautiful summer evening. Imagine the sky painted with stars and the air filled with brilliant music," said Cullen, a consultant hired to pitch the idea of a massive music festival dubbed Project Niagara to local residents and politicians.
"Imagine people from across Ontario ... from around the world, sitting rapt, poised to break into thunderous applause as the conductor lowers his baton."
It's a vision of a world-class music festival and amphitheatre, attracting hundreds of thousands of visitors to Niagara every summer.
It takes plenty of imagining.
The only thing wafting over that section of lakeshore today is the odour of two municipal sewage lagoons. The 300-acre property once served as a tank training area and a pistol, rifle and artillery range.
The prospect of unexploded shells underfoot has kept the lonely lakefront off-limits for decades, unless you're a coyote.
Just reclaiming the land is a big undertaking. The musical vision is even bigger.
Project Niagara would include an open-air amphitheatre for 2,400 people and enough lawn space to seat 9,000 more. Cullen said 260,000 visitors each summer is a conservative estimate.
The facility would be the summer home for the Toronto Symphony Orchestra and the National Arts Centre Orchestra for seven weeks of a 12-week performance schedule.
It would host up to 60 concerts a summer - mostly "classical extravaganzas," but with some jazz, pop and world music in the mix.
"Of course it's ambitious. It has to be big," Cullen said. "We can't go ahead with half-measures and hope it succeeds. We have to knock people's socks off."
The project is nowhere close to being a done deal.
Project boosters, including the two orchestras, are working on a detailed feasibility study, due in the next month or two.
Cullen expects to know by the summer whether imagination can translate into reality. But she likes the project's prospects, for several reasons.
"To have two of the countries leading orchestras on board, that's a huge advantage, huge for our credibility," she said. "So is locating in Niagara. People, a lot of people, are coming here to visit anyway."
The group already has the blessing of the federal government. Parks Canada, the owner of the property, has agreed to work with the group. Canada's military has also started cleaning up the decades of ballistic contamination on the old artillery and rifle range.
Tim Callighen, who lives nearby in the neighbourhood of Chautauqua, is thankful for the rifle range cleanup.
He thinks the music festival dream is pretty cool, too, but he doesn't want it to turn into a nightmare for local residents.
"In theory, it sounds fantastic," he said of the festival. "But local people have a lot of questions that need to be answered." Close to 300 residents asked those questions at an information session held in Niagara-on-the-Lake late last month.
"Noise is a big, big thing. So is traffic," said Callighen, who attended the meeting.
Preliminary plans call for 2,000 parking spaces on site, plus accommodations to shuttle in thousands of people from lots on the outskirts of town.
"I don't know if Lakeshore (Road) can handle that extra traffic," he said. "And we don't want people trying to cheat by parking on local side streets."
The potential cost to residents also worries him.
"If you're going to upgrade the roads, pay for policing or parking enforcement, local residents don't want to be nailed for it," he said.
Money is an awfully big question mark for the project.
Cullen said consultants are studying capital costs and fundraising potential as part of the project feasibility study.
Similar festival sites built in recent years - like Bethel Woods Center for the Arts in New York - cost $75 million upfront.
That doesn't necessarily include the cost of upgrading roads, either, or draining and replacing sewage lagoons.
The job is doable, say Niagara regional officials.
But doing it in time for a hoped-for opening date of 2012 (to coincide with the War of 1812 bicentennial) may stretch imagination a little too far.
"That would be very optimistic," said regional transportation director Joe Cousins.
The Region already has plans to upgrade area roads such as Concession 6, Line 3 and Concession 3, he said, and an environmental assessment for upgrades to Lakeshore Road is underway.
But normally, any changes would have been scheduled for the next six to 12 years, he noted.
"We'd have to accelerate some of those works substantially. That's our challenge," he said.
The time crunch is even worse for the sewage lagoons.
The festival plans call for an amphitheatre and lawn seating to be dropped exactly in the footprint of the lagoons, which cover about 50 acres.
The Region is in the midst of an environmental assessment looking at ways to replace the lagoons, which will fill up within six years.
Even if the Region decides to decommission and drain the lagoons, however, doing it in time for 2012 "would be a challenge," said water and wastewater director Betty Matthews-Malone.
Cullen acknowledges the challenges.
Organizers must keep residents "in the loop" and to try and address their concerns, she said.
Fundraising won't be easy, either.
But Cullen noted skeptics should consider the economic and cultural value of the project alongside its costs.
And she's confident the project has developed a "positive momentum" that is already overcoming seemingly insurmountable hurdles.
Cullen pointed to the military cleanup, which started just last month.
"People have wanted that property cleaned up for 50 years," she said.
"Now, it's happening."
mvandongen@ stcatharinesstandard.ca
Festival by the numbers:
Up to 60 concerts over 12 weeks.
260,000 visitors a summer.
Between 2,000 and 10,000 visitors expected per concert.
Seating for 2,400 in an open-air amphitheatre.
Lawn seating for 7,000-9,000.
Looking to compare festivals? Project supporters offer these examples:
Tanglewood
Located in Massachusetts.
Home of the annual summer Tanglewood Music Festival and the Tanglewood Jazz Festival.
Summer home of the Boston Symphony Orchestra since 1937.
Annually attracts 350,000 for concerts.
Ravinia
Located in Illinois.
Oldest outdoor music festival in North America.
Summer home of the Chicago Symphony Orchestra.
3,200-seat open-air, covered pavilion, two recital halls with 850 and 450 seats, respectively.
Annually attracts 600,000 for summer concerts.
Blossom
Located in Ohio.
Summer home of The Cleveland Orchestra.
Covered outdoor pavilion seats 5,700.
Annually attracts 400,000 for summer concerts.
local press on issue
including some comments from the angry poster - now somewhat mellowed and thinking the idea is cool!!?? mixed messages or what!
article follows
article follows
Just imagine ...; Translating big dreams into reality would be music to the ears of boosters of a world-class festival and amphitheatre in Niagara
Posted By MATTHEW VAN DONGEN Standard Staff
Updated 6 hours ago
It's all about imagination, right now. Imagine orchestral overtures of Beethoven wafting over the lakeshore just outside Niagara-on-the-Lake.
A wide, green lawn hidden by blankets and about 9,000 music lovers.
Another 2,400 folks seated in a covered pavilion built to accentuate the sound of a professional orchestra.
Encircle the whole scene with Carolinian forest and throw in a breathtaking view of Lake Ontario.
Kari Cullen sees it all, where others see only lonely lands fenced off along Lakeshore Road.
"Imagine a beautiful summer evening. Imagine the sky painted with stars and the air filled with brilliant music," said Cullen, a consultant hired to pitch the idea of a massive music festival dubbed Project Niagara to local residents and politicians.
"Imagine people from across Ontario ... from around the world, sitting rapt, poised to break into thunderous applause as the conductor lowers his baton."
It's a vision of a world-class music festival and amphitheatre, attracting hundreds of thousands of visitors to Niagara every summer.
It takes plenty of imagining.
The only thing wafting over that section of lakeshore today is the odour of two municipal sewage lagoons. The 300-acre property once served as a tank training area and a pistol, rifle and artillery range.
The prospect of unexploded shells underfoot has kept the lonely lakefront off-limits for decades, unless you're a coyote.
Just reclaiming the land is a big undertaking. The musical vision is even bigger.
Project Niagara would include an open-air amphitheatre for 2,400 people and enough lawn space to seat 9,000 more. Cullen said 260,000 visitors each summer is a conservative estimate.
The facility would be the summer home for the Toronto Symphony Orchestra and the National Arts Centre Orchestra for seven weeks of a 12-week performance schedule.
It would host up to 60 concerts a summer - mostly "classical extravaganzas," but with some jazz, pop and world music in the mix.
"Of course it's ambitious. It has to be big," Cullen said. "We can't go ahead with half-measures and hope it succeeds. We have to knock people's socks off."
The project is nowhere close to being a done deal.
Project boosters, including the two orchestras, are working on a detailed feasibility study, due in the next month or two.
Cullen expects to know by the summer whether imagination can translate into reality. But she likes the project's prospects, for several reasons.
"To have two of the countries leading orchestras on board, that's a huge advantage, huge for our credibility," she said. "So is locating in Niagara. People, a lot of people, are coming here to visit anyway."
The group already has the blessing of the federal government. Parks Canada, the owner of the property, has agreed to work with the group. Canada's military has also started cleaning up the decades of ballistic contamination on the old artillery and rifle range.
Tim Callighen, who lives nearby in the neighbourhood of Chautauqua, is thankful for the rifle range cleanup.
He thinks the music festival dream is pretty cool, too, but he doesn't want it to turn into a nightmare for local residents.
"In theory, it sounds fantastic," he said of the festival. "But local people have a lot of questions that need to be answered." Close to 300 residents asked those questions at an information session held in Niagara-on-the-Lake late last month.
"Noise is a big, big thing. So is traffic," said Callighen, who attended the meeting.
Preliminary plans call for 2,000 parking spaces on site, plus accommodations to shuttle in thousands of people from lots on the outskirts of town.
"I don't know if Lakeshore (Road) can handle that extra traffic," he said. "And we don't want people trying to cheat by parking on local side streets."
The potential cost to residents also worries him.
"If you're going to upgrade the roads, pay for policing or parking enforcement, local residents don't want to be nailed for it," he said.
Money is an awfully big question mark for the project.
Cullen said consultants are studying capital costs and fundraising potential as part of the project feasibility study.
Similar festival sites built in recent years - like Bethel Woods Center for the Arts in New York - cost $75 million upfront.
That doesn't necessarily include the cost of upgrading roads, either, or draining and replacing sewage lagoons.
The job is doable, say Niagara regional officials.
But doing it in time for a hoped-for opening date of 2012 (to coincide with the War of 1812 bicentennial) may stretch imagination a little too far.
"That would be very optimistic," said regional transportation director Joe Cousins.
The Region already has plans to upgrade area roads such as Concession 6, Line 3 and Concession 3, he said, and an environmental assessment for upgrades to Lakeshore Road is underway.
But normally, any changes would have been scheduled for the next six to 12 years, he noted.
"We'd have to accelerate some of those works substantially. That's our challenge," he said.
The time crunch is even worse for the sewage lagoons.
The festival plans call for an amphitheatre and lawn seating to be dropped exactly in the footprint of the lagoons, which cover about 50 acres.
The Region is in the midst of an environmental assessment looking at ways to replace the lagoons, which will fill up within six years.
Even if the Region decides to decommission and drain the lagoons, however, doing it in time for 2012 "would be a challenge," said water and wastewater director Betty Matthews-Malone.
Cullen acknowledges the challenges.
Organizers must keep residents "in the loop" and to try and address their concerns, she said.
Fundraising won't be easy, either.
But Cullen noted skeptics should consider the economic and cultural value of the project alongside its costs.
And she's confident the project has developed a "positive momentum" that is already overcoming seemingly insurmountable hurdles.
Cullen pointed to the military cleanup, which started just last month.
"People have wanted that property cleaned up for 50 years," she said.
"Now, it's happening."
mvandongen@ stcatharinesstandard.ca
Festival by the numbers:
Up to 60 concerts over 12 weeks.
260,000 visitors a summer.
Between 2,000 and 10,000 visitors expected per concert.
Seating for 2,400 in an open-air amphitheatre.
Lawn seating for 7,000-9,000.
Looking to compare festivals? Project supporters offer these examples:
Tanglewood
Located in Massachusetts.
Home of the annual summer Tanglewood Music Festival and the Tanglewood Jazz Festival.
Summer home of the Boston Symphony Orchestra since 1937.
Annually attracts 350,000 for concerts.
Ravinia
Located in Illinois.
Oldest outdoor music festival in North America.
Summer home of the Chicago Symphony Orchestra.
3,200-seat open-air, covered pavilion, two recital halls with 850 and 450 seats, respectively.
Annually attracts 600,000 for summer concerts.
Blossom
Located in Ohio.
Summer home of The Cleveland Orchestra.
Covered outdoor pavilion seats 5,700.
Annually attracts 400,000 for summer concerts.
CanadianNational
Senior Member
Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing the Island Airport closed and this ampitheatre and event located on that site, re-landscaped with a stunning view of Toronto Harbour. If Niagara on the Lake doesn't want it, I'd be glad to see it moved here.
Tewder
Senior Member
Great idea!!
Or, I'm sure there are lots of other 'quaint' yet struggling small Ontario towns that would welcome such a project if they could accommodate it....Paris perhaps, on a site along the Grand River? Picton, in the Bay of Quinte area? Elora/Fergus? The options are endless...
Or, I'm sure there are lots of other 'quaint' yet struggling small Ontario towns that would welcome such a project if they could accommodate it....Paris perhaps, on a site along the Grand River? Picton, in the Bay of Quinte area? Elora/Fergus? The options are endless...
InnocentBystander
New Member
Project Niagara has a blog now!
If you are still interested in following the project - and local discussion / news - you might want to visit: http://blog.projectniagara.org/
If you are still interested in following the project - and local discussion / news - you might want to visit: http://blog.projectniagara.org/
Ottawa, Toronto orchestras push plan for Niagara summer festival
CBC News
A $76-million plan for a major summer music festival in Niagara-on-the-Lake took one more step forward with the release of a major feasibility study into the project.
Ottawa's National Arts Centre Orchestra and the Toronto Symphony Orchestra have been working on "Project Niagara" for the last four years and presented the study Monday to the Niagara-on-the-Lake council.
The idea is for a 12-week classical music festival, similar to the Tanglewood Festival in the U.S.
Both the NACO and TSO would have a "summer home" at the festival and a series of concerts would help attract tourists.
"What we'd like to to is create a festival with about 50 concerts throughout the summer," consultant Kari Cullen, who worked on the feasibility study, told CBC News.
"It would be a combination of Toronto Symphony Orchestra and National Arts Centre Orchestra concerts, and also other international orchestras and other musical genres."
The study suggests such a festival could generate millions of dollars in economic activity, and become a major cultural tourism attraction.
The plan is to build an amphitheatre on former Department of National Defence lands in the town, which is also home to the Shaw Festival.
Project Niagara aims to open by 2012 in time to celebrate the 200th anniversary of the War of 1812, much of which was fought in the Niagara area.
Niagara-on-the-Lake approved the project in principle on Monday, but there were concerns about parking and amenities for the approximately 250,000 people that could be drawn to the festival annually.
"We're talking about parking for 2,000 cars, we're talking about a large amphitheatre, so it is still an invasive enterprise," said Randy Busbridge, representative of a town residents' group.
Project Niagara is backed by the boards of the NAC and TSO. The Ministries of Culture and Tourism, the Ontario Lottery and Gaming Corp. and Falls Management Co. are prepared to back the project financially.
However, at least $25 million would have to be raised from private donations, according to the study.
CBC News
A $76-million plan for a major summer music festival in Niagara-on-the-Lake took one more step forward with the release of a major feasibility study into the project.
Ottawa's National Arts Centre Orchestra and the Toronto Symphony Orchestra have been working on "Project Niagara" for the last four years and presented the study Monday to the Niagara-on-the-Lake council.
The idea is for a 12-week classical music festival, similar to the Tanglewood Festival in the U.S.
Both the NACO and TSO would have a "summer home" at the festival and a series of concerts would help attract tourists.
"What we'd like to to is create a festival with about 50 concerts throughout the summer," consultant Kari Cullen, who worked on the feasibility study, told CBC News.
"It would be a combination of Toronto Symphony Orchestra and National Arts Centre Orchestra concerts, and also other international orchestras and other musical genres."
The study suggests such a festival could generate millions of dollars in economic activity, and become a major cultural tourism attraction.
The plan is to build an amphitheatre on former Department of National Defence lands in the town, which is also home to the Shaw Festival.
Project Niagara aims to open by 2012 in time to celebrate the 200th anniversary of the War of 1812, much of which was fought in the Niagara area.
Niagara-on-the-Lake approved the project in principle on Monday, but there were concerns about parking and amenities for the approximately 250,000 people that could be drawn to the festival annually.
"We're talking about parking for 2,000 cars, we're talking about a large amphitheatre, so it is still an invasive enterprise," said Randy Busbridge, representative of a town residents' group.
Project Niagara is backed by the boards of the NAC and TSO. The Ministries of Culture and Tourism, the Ontario Lottery and Gaming Corp. and Falls Management Co. are prepared to back the project financially.
However, at least $25 million would have to be raised from private donations, according to the study.
InnocentBystander
New Member
Project Niagara Feasibility Study
Still interested....that's great!!
You can download a .pdf of the study here....or....here (francais).
And the blog has local news and more...here!
...some local support can be found ...here!
Still interested....that's great!!
You can download a .pdf of the study here....or....here (francais).
And the blog has local news and more...here!
...some local support can be found ...here!
New since the last posts...
And more recently: