Premier Doug Ford's Ontario

[Richard White]

I hope Ford acts before it to late in the GTA and Ottawa.

He likely knows he has to. If this blows up he will be ripped a new one in the media.

 

[TheKingEast]

Money is more important than the people in Ontario's lives for Doug Ford.

Many experts advised Ontario for months to boost COVID testing capacity. Sources say they just didn’t want to spend the money

Read link.

Pathetic.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Meanwhile...

Geneva adopts what's believed to be the highest minimum wage in the world, at $25 (USD) an hour

From link.

Voters in Geneva, Switzerland, have agreed to introduce a minimum wage in the canton that is the equivalent of $25 an hour -- believed to be the highest in the world.

According to government data, 58% of voters in the canton were in favor of the initiative set the minimum wage at 23 Swiss francs an hour, which was backed by a coalition of labor unions and aimed at "fighting poverty, favoring social integration, and contributing to the respect of human dignity."

23₣ (Swiss francs) = $33.23 CAD.

While Switzerland has no national minimum wage law, Geneva is the fourth of 26 cantons to vote on the matter in recent years after Neuchâtel, Jura and Ticino.

"This new minimum wage will apply to about 6% of the canton's workers as of November 1st," Geneva State Counselor Mauro Poggia told CNN in a statement.

Communauté genevoise d'action syndicale, the umbrella organization of unions in Geneva, described the result as "a historic victory, which will directly benefit 30,000 workers, two-thirds of whom are women."

The decision was also praised by Michel Charrat, president of the Groupement transfrontalier européen, an association of workers commuting between Geneva and nearby France.

Charrat told The Guardian that the coronavirus pandemic "has shown that a certain section of the Swiss population cannot live in Geneva," and argued that the new minimum wage is "the minimum to not fall below the poverty line and find yourself in a very difficult situation." Charrat didn't return a CNN request for comment.

The Geneva Council of State, the local executive branch, said in an opinion against the measure that the new minimum wage would be "the highest in the world."...

Doug Ford, can you comment?

 

[Northern Light]

Meanwhile...

Geneva adopts what's believed to be the highest minimum wage in the world, at $25 (USD) an hour

From link.



23₣ (Swiss francs) = $33.23 CAD.



Doug Ford, can you comment?

Broadly speaking, I favour what Geneva is doing; and commend its ongoing success in doing it.

Though I would caution, Geneva also has an exceedingly high cost of living, yes, vs Toronto; so the minimum wage is not as high in real, as-lived terms as it first appears.

From numbeo:

Allowing for the above; their minimum wage would have a proximal value of ~$16CAD per hour

The highest minimum wage, relative to cost of living is debatable.

In so far as it depends what 'benefits' you receive from your employer or the state.

Seattle: $16.11USD is ~$22 CAD; though that is presumptive on having to buy your own health insurance {though Obamacare would help)

NYC at $15US is ~$20CAD

While AUS is `~$17.50CAD per hour.

Any way you slice it, the Ontario minimum wage is not near the top of spectrum.

Relative to cost of living, its somewhat sub-Median.

 

[Johnny Au]

Ontario minimum wage is enough (only if you live in somewhere like Port Elgin or St. Thomas).

Ontario minimum wage is not enough to live in downtown Toronto comfortably.

It's time to raise the minimum wage.

 

[afransen]

Should min wage be geared to a specific area (as specific as downtown)?

 

[Richard White]

Should min wage be geared to a specific area (as specific as downtown)?

Realistically Toronto should have it's own minimum wage to account for the higher cost of living. This would be akin to the prescribed zones in Northern Canada where items cost more and people get various tax breaks for living there.

Terrace Bay doesn't require a 22-25 dollar an hour minimum but Toronto does.

I made 16 an hour working as a concierge in a condominium and most recently made 32000 a year ($930 every two weeks/$15.30~ per hour) managing a condominium and have to live with my folks.

If I didn't live at home I couldn't afford to rent my own place even with a roommate in Toronto.

I am now contemplating leaving Canada during a Pandemic because even though things are going to hell in a handbasket I am likely to find a better quality of life elsewhere for the same wages.

Even when I made $17.50 as a security supervisor I still couldn't afford my own apartment after the various government deductions off my pay.

 

[WislaHD]

Meanwhile...

Geneva adopts what's believed to be the highest minimum wage in the world, at $25 (USD) an hour

From link.

If you ever go to Switzerland, you quickly realize that $25 an hour is not that significant at all.

A mug of Tim Horton's equivalent coffee runs you $7 CAD there. If you want a proper cappuccino you are spending $12 CAD.

 

[Northern Light]

Ontario minimum wage is enough (only if you live in somewhere like Port Elgin or St. Thomas).

Ontario minimum wage is not enough to live in downtown Toronto comfortably.

It's time to raise the minimum wage.

No question in my mind that the general minimum wage needs to rise, meaningfully.

I would argue some changes are also needed to other employment standards in order to drive wages above minimum within the private market.

Changes could include higher paid vacation mandates that would tighten the labour supply; as well as stricter overtime rules (the U.S. uses 40 hours nation wide, we use 44 in Ontario).

Should min wage be geared to a specific area (as specific as downtown)?

I think a regional approach would make the most sense.

Getting down to the neighbourhood level would very complex for business and a real administrative hassle.

I would argue for the GTA being one zone from Halton to Durham, and including York Region.

A second zone would cover Ottawa, and maybe Hamilton.

With the rest of Ontario at one wage; * with exceptions for the remote areas that have no year-round road access.

We could debate the numbers at some length.

But I think something around 70% of median wage would be reasonable. You can't really go much higher. But going less puts you too far below a living wage.

Median hourly wage in Ontario is currently $24 an hour. Something that also needs to rise mind you.

If, by upping the minimum wage and tightening overtime and mandating greater paid vacation we could drive the median wage up to $27 per hour.......

Then 70% of that would be $18.90 per hour, which for the province as a whole seems reasonable to me.

The median wage in Toronto is closer to $32 per hour.

That would put the minimum wage at $22.40 per hour based on the 70% of median threshold.

That would be stretching the limits of competitive wages, be its not ridiculous, we should at least get close to that.

A one-time catch up to $16 per hour immediately, followed by $1 per hour + cpi until we reach prescribed levels would be a reasonable plan.

 

[Jasmine18]

The issue is increasing the min wage we need to stop under the table work and exploitation of groups as well.

That will collectively benefit and lead to higher wages.

 

[afransen]

Realistically Toronto should have it's own minimum wage to account for the higher cost of living. This would be akin to the prescribed zones in Northern Canada where items cost more and people get various tax breaks for living there.

Terrace Bay doesn't require a 22-25 dollar an hour minimum but Toronto does.

I made 16 an hour working as a concierge in a condominium and most recently made 32000 a year ($930 every two weeks/$15.30~ per hour) managing a condominium and have to live with my folks.

If I didn't live at home I couldn't afford to rent my own place even with a roommate in Toronto.

I am now contemplating leaving Canada during a Pandemic because even though things are going to hell in a handbasket I am likely to find a better quality of life elsewhere for the same wages.

Even when I made $17.50 as a security supervisor I still couldn't afford my own apartment after the various government deductions off my pay.

There's a whole wide world outside of DT, even in Canada. Smaller cities with more affordable housing. Particularly if you are getting paid just above min wage, you might as well do that in KW, Kingston or London. Nonetheless, people who work downtown can commute as well.

I'm not opposed to a higher min wage, it just seems like it will be courting problems if the min wage is not consistent across economic units like the GTA. What happens to DT when min wage is $25 there and $15 in the suburbs? You'll end up with a ring of service jobs just outside of the min wage zone. And you will likely kill the service sector DT as people will travel for cheaper services outside the zone.

 

[Richard White]

There's a whole wide world outside of DT, even in Canada. Nonetheless, people who work downtown can commute as well.

I'm not opposed to a higher min wage, it just seems like it will be courting problems if the min wage is not consistent across economic units like the GTA. What happens to DT when min wage is $25 there and $15 in the suburbs? You'll end up with a ring of service jobs just outside of the min wage zone. And you will likely kill the service sector DT as people will travel for cheaper services outside the zone.

If you have GTA minimum wage you won't kill any jobs.

Nobody will drive to Niagara Falls or Peterborough to get a coffee.

 

[DSC]

I am now contemplating leaving Canada during a Pandemic because even though things are going to hell in a handbasket I am likely to find a better quality of life elsewhere for the same wages.

You do realise that this is a worldwide pandemic and that Canada is actually handling it better than most places? Emigrating is not easy in 'normal times' it's extremely complicated now due to travel restrictions.

 

[Richard White]

You do realise that this is a worldwide pandemic and that Canada is actually handling it better than most places? Emigrating is not easy in 'normal times' it's extremely complicated now due to travel restrictions.

Not when you are a tri-national.

 

[DSC]

Not when you are a tri-national.

Yes, that makes moving somewhat easier as you can avoid or ,at least, reduce the bureaucratic hassles but the fact still remains that Canada is handling the covid situation FAR better than US, UK or many other European countries.