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Premier Doug Ford's Ontario

Jasmine18 said:
I never said no restrictions
I said no complete lockdown.
I think we can have targeted restrictions and keep deaths at a minimum.
Like we can tell the big issue is downtown crowd at restaurants and bars but no need to shut down all of them across ontario
Click to expand...

What just "downtown crowd" - you have transmission basically across the GTA and Ottawa - and you can't even account for how half the cases spread. Sorry, your inability to eat at a restaurant or go to casino runs low in the balance of things.

AoD
 
afransen said:
Pretty sure Brampton isn't downtown and it is spreading quite rapidly there.
Click to expand...

It was always smouldering in Peel - they never managed to beat it down completely, and somehow they expect loosening the restrictions (hell, they are pretty bad at even enforcing what restrictions they had) will produce a different outcome from it bouncing back.

AoD
 
I'd really like to see more transparency around community spread.

Restos are definitely a factor.

But based on what data has been made public, not the biggest factor, probably by far.

Which begs the question..........what is?

Is this just breakdown of social bubbles/private gatherings? Increased volumes on transit?

I have a sneaking suspicious based on what data has come out that schools are playing a big role here.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1310052771241041921
 
Northern Light said:
I have a sneaking suspicious based on what data has come out that schools are playing a big role here.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1310052771241041921
Click to expand...

Nope. Have you been following Imgrund's data? Not by a long shot; at least certainly not Elementary or High School in the GTA, as those groups (<20 year old) aren't a contributing factor to the higher positive numbers (rural positives in this age group are disproportionately large contributors due to the low overall numbers of positives in those areas). And most post-secondary is being done remotely.


It's 20-39 year olds almost exclusively, with a heavy lean on the 20s.

Seriously, and I'll keep saying it, this is all going to trace back to restaurant goers and Phase 3 being ill-timed, not strict enough and lacking enforcement.
 
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Jasmine18 said:
But totally destroying the economy to save largely 80 year old from death seems overkill.
Click to expand...
Wow. Just... Wow.

Sweden (who've done very little) are faring barely better economically than Canada. Their economy's shrunk 8.6% since the virus took hold. Canada saw its economy shrink 11.5% in that time.

You've said an economic shrinkage difference of 2.9% is more important than "80 year olds*"

*plus the immunocompromised, people with blood type A, otherwise healthy people with high exposures, etc.

This kind of selfish-BS is why some people outright hate the conservative mindset.
 
zang said:
Wow. Just... Wow.

Sweden (who've done very little) are faring barely better economically than Canada. Their economy's shrunk 8.6% since the virus took hold. Canada saw its economy shrink 11.5% in that time.

You've said an economic shrinkage difference of 2.9% is more important than "80 year olds*"

*plus the immunocompromised, people with blood type A, otherwise healthy people with high exposures, etc.

This kind of selfish-BS is why some people outright hate the conservative mindset.
Click to expand...

Sweden's deaths/100K pop is also double that of Canada - and the former is a country with a high degree of rule following, trust in government and generous social safety net.

coronavirus.jhu.edu

Mortality Analyses - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center

How does mortality differ across countries? Examining the number of deaths per confirmed case and per 100,000 population. A global comparison.
coronavirus.jhu.edu coronavirus.jhu.edu

AoD
 
zang said:
Wow. Just... Wow.

Sweden (who've done very little) are faring barely better economically than Canada. Their economy's shrunk 8.6% since the virus took hold. Canada saw its economy shrink 11.5% in that time.

You've said an economic shrinkage difference of 2.9% is more important than "80 year olds*"

*plus the immunocompromised, people with blood type A, otherwise healthy people with high exposures, etc.

This kind of selfish-BS is why some people outright hate the conservative mindset.
Click to expand...
Isn't sweden liberal though


Lol...

🤣

1. I did not argue against lockdown 1
2. I did not say we dont need restrictions to stay in place .


I am saying you guys assume the econonmic considertaions are just about the rich and the dow jones....


however we seen complete lockdowns make rich people richer like jazz bezos and screw over everyone else.

So there is a huge asterisk in doing a 2nd complete shutdown.


You guys call for full shhutdowns like its nothing big and ignore all the massive problems that brings too...
 
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zang said:
Nope. Have you been following Imgrund's data? Not by a long shot; at least certainly not Elementary or High School in the GTA, as those groups (<20 year old) aren't a contributing factor to the higher positive numbers (rural positives in this age group are disproportionately large contributors due to the low overall numbers of positives in those areas). And most post-secondary is being done remotely.


It's 20-39 year olds almost exclusively, with a heavy lean on the 20s.

Seriously, and I'll keep saying it, this is all going to trace back to restaurant goers and Phase 3 being ill-timed, not strict enough and lacking enforcement.
Click to expand...

That may well be the case; but bear with me.

<20s are less like to be symptomatic and less likely to be tested.

We already have a school shut down due to Covid in the GTA. (Mason Park Jr. Public).

The issue being that kids take it home (as do teachers) there it may well infect those in the 20-39 group, who may well socialize before being symptomatic and getting tested.

My supposition may be wrong here, I'll concede.

But I've been seeing most resto interiors looking empty.

Patios have been moderately busy, but are outdoors, of course, and generally well spaced.

Now, perhaps I'm just in the wrong hood; and/or maybe those restos even with low densities of customers are still seeing spread.

I also think large informal gatherings like house parties are playing a material role.

Again, I think its important we see the data from TPH.

We also need more aggressive contact tracing as I'm still seeing a high inconclusive rate.

* also important to note in this latest data drop, 40% of all new cases are in those >40
 
I did not mean to trivialize the death of seniors

This is the debate health experts and politicians across the country are debating behind closed doors i imagine.
 
Now, on the subject of restos...................this one could do a number on infections all by itself.

Get a load of this video from Marbl

This is from July btw, so wouldn't apply directly to the current outbreak; but this is one of the restos currently shutdown by public health for not following proper procedures in relation to Covid.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1281988301545758720
 
The media are all furiously Tweeting that the Premier has confirmed Ontario is experiencing its 2nd Wave of Covid.

I felt the need to helpfully add:

1601313941703.png
 
I’m not in favour of another wide sweeping shutdown and have never said I was. We have learned a lot since March. I think we need targeted shutdowns in areas that have shown to be trigger points. So we might need to restrict indoor dining. we need to figure out schools and daycares so parents can stay working. We need to control social gatherings. Retail can remain open with sensible restrictions in place. Short term pain for long term gain hopefully and not throwing out old people or immune compromised people as sacrificial lambs. And not over burdening our hospitals is also key.
 
Jasmine18 said:
Isn't sweden liberal though


Lol...

🤣

1. I did not argue against lockdown 1
2. I did not say we dont need restrictions to stay in place .


I am saying you guys assume the econonmic considertaions are just about the rich and the dow jones....


however we seen complete lockdowns make rich people richer like jazz bezos and screw over everyone else.

So there is a huge asterisk in doing a 2nd complete shutdown.


You guys call for full shhutdowns like its nothing big and ignore all the massive problems that brings too...
Click to expand...
Who’s calling for full shutdowns?

Quash dine-in at restaurants. Close the gyms. Close anywhere people don’t wear masks. Close the places the age groups contributing the most to the spread visit often.

But no one said repeat March 18th all over again.
 
Yeah I read that we may be reaching the end of the social aspect of covid 19 even if the ugly medical reality remains.

Will be a tough winter and fall.
 
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