Politics: Tim Hudak's Plan for Ontario if he becomes Premier

[TOareaFan]

Yeah he did, he wants and east west crosstown subway. That's the eglinton crosstown changing to HRT. I think (I don't know for 100 percent sure) that east-west means Pearson Kennedy. He wants one line to connect the whole city.

Think about that for a second. That could easily mean connected to the bloor line by the DRL???

As noted, and linked, in post 766...it looks like a clumsy use of the words cross town....which (understandably in our current context) has been taken to mean the "Crosstown'.....

the Globe seems to be the only one reporting any detail and it appears the cross town subway he is referring to/prioritizing is the east west portion of what many are calling the DRL or the RL or YRL or whatever.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I'm surprised he'd support an Eglinton Crosstown Subway. West of Jane the line would move less people that the Sheppard Subway if it were extended to STC. I don't understand why he'd want to build a useless Eglinton Crosstown Subway over the slightly less useless Sheppard East Subway.

The PCs must have some kind of sick obessession with building subways that nobody will use.

It's all pie in the sky stuff, but he's looking at stuff beyond density and numbers. The Pearson extension and Sheppard East extension is good politics. The Liberals from Scarborough are holding up the SELRT because they want Sheppard East built so there's that. He's buying votes in the outer 416.

As noted, and linked, in post 766...it looks like a clumsy use of the words cross town....which (understandably in our current context) has been taken to mean the "Crosstown'.....

the Globe seems to be the only one reporting any detail and it appears the cross town subway he is referring to/prioritizing is the east west portion of what many are calling the DRL or the RL or YRL or whatever.

Honestly, coming out and saying I'll build the DRL to Eglinton on both ends is better then what he just said.

 

[TOareaFan]

It's all pie in the sky stuff, but he's looking at stuff beyond density and numbers. The Pearson extension and Sheppard East extension is good politics. The Liberals from Scarborough are holding up the SELRT because they want Sheppard East built so there's that. He's buying votes in the outer 416.


Honestly, coming out and saying I'll build the DRL to Eglinton on both ends is better then what he just said.

Just clarifying what appears to be a difference between cross town and Crosstown.....but are you saying that a DRL (or whatever letter goes in front of RL) connecting to Bloor in, both, the west and east is a bad thing? Isn't just about every politician out there campaigning (other than, say, Chow) telling us this is what the city needs/want?

 

[TheTigerMaster]

As noted, and linked, in post 766...it looks like a clumsy use of the words cross town....which (understandably in our current context) has been taken to mean the "Crosstown'.....

the Globe seems to be the only one reporting any detail and it appears the cross town subway he is referring to/prioritizing is the east west portion of what many are calling the DRL or the RL or YRL or whatever.

West to Dundas West and East to Don Mills? That's actually an okay plan.

Of course the ridership potential on the extension to Don Mills @ Eglinton is questionable. I'd still like to see a study of what riserhsip we could expect if it was extended all the way up to Don Mille @ Sheppard. I'd expect that part to be higher because of the SELRT, Sheppard Subway and connecting bus routes.

 

[Adjei]

The east west subway is the downtown relief line.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Just clarifying what appears to be a difference between cross town and Crosstown.....but are you saying that a DRL (or whatever letter goes in front of RL) connecting to Bloor in, both, the west and east is a bad thing? Isn't just about every politician out there campaigning (other than, say, Chow) telling us this is what the city needs/want?

I'm saying it should end at Eglinton at both ends for phase one.

West to Dundas West and East to Don Mills? That's actually an okay plan.

Of course the ridership potential on the extension to Don Mills @ Eglinton is questionable. I'd still like to see a study of what riserhsip we could expect if it was extended all the way up to Don Mille @ Sheppard. I'd expect that part to be higher because of the SELRT, Sheppard Subway and connecting bus routes.

The east west subway is the downtown relief line.

He mentioned the DRL separately. the East West line is not the DRL.

 

[WislaHD]

West to Dundas West and East to Don Mills? That's actually an okay plan.

Of course the ridership potential on the extension to Don Mills @ Eglinton is questionable. I'd still like to see a study of what riserhsip we could expect if it was extended all the way up to Don Mille @ Sheppard. I'd expect that part to be higher because of the SELRT, Sheppard Subway and connecting bus routes.

Personally, I'd love subway access to the Shops at Don Mills. I'm hoping if the DRL to Don Mills happens, its terminus is at Lawrence. It'll also leave discussion open for future access to Sheppard&Don Mills.

Ridership is questionable though, that is correct. This plan would have more synergy with a Scarborough LRT that is interlined with the Eglinton Crosstown, allowing Scarborough commuters to commute to the DRL via Eglinton as opposed to Bloor-Danforth and spreading out the demand.

 

[TOareaFan]

I'm saying it should end at Eglinton at both ends for phase one.





He mentioned the DRL separately. the East West line is not the DRL.

Again, from the globe

His top transit priority, the new southern Toronto east-west subway, would be the longest rapid transit project built in this country since the 1960s. It would connect to the Bloor line in the east and west, but Mr. Hudak said he hadn't determined where, or what exact route it would take.

Sure sounds like the D/Y/- RL

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I wish someone would bring back the Malvern and Jane LRTs. Those were easy wins.

Again, from the globe



Sure sounds like the D/Y/- RL

"but Mr. Hudak said he hadn't determined where, or what exact route it would take." I guess will see. The Crosstown can also connect to Bloor via the DRL. No reason Hudak can't be innovative in this.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I wish Hudak would just be honest and say I want Eglinton to be a subway, I want Sheppard completed and I want the DRL done in it's entirety. But that would cost too much money.

 

[TOareaFan]

"but Mr. Hudak said he hadn't determined where, or what exact route it would take."

1) has any politician decided on what route RL would take...yet just about all of them have it as a priority
2) I am happy that no politician has decided what route it would take....it is not their job to do so and I will get a bit scared when any of them say they decided.

 

[nfitz]

NF and Everyone: I found these Chicago examples interesting because they are close to CTA and/or METRA Electric rail stations and
as mentioned the comparison in Toronto would be worth up to tenfold more...

Up to tenfold? More like starting at 20-fold, and up to 50-fold.

The difference here is that these South Side neighborhoods are all predominantly black

Hang on ... they are all predominantly poor. Given how racist the USA is, the poor are predominantly black.

These aren't traditional black neighbourhoods. They were built in the early part of the last century, and were predominantly white.

This goes to show that Toronto has suffered little if any from any pronounced "white flight" from deteriorating neighborhoods and from what I have seen it is more likely that residents are priced out of marginal areas that are undergoing rehabilitation...

Why would one flee downtown based on race? Are you trying to suggest blacks are dangerous or something? This seems bizarre. Surely it's entirely related to poverty, and this would not have happened if there were constraints on growth, and Chicagoland had not been allowed to spread endlessly.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

1) has any politician decided on what route RL would take...yet just about all of them have it as a priority
2) I am happy that no politician has decided what route it would take....it is not their job to do so and I will get a bit scared when any of them say they decided.

It's common knowledge the Pape-St Andrew stub is the favorite to be built. I don't know why, but it is. And why do you think it's the RL, when in his white paper he identifies the DRL differently and the DRL is a north south route for half it's length regardless of what alignment it is. I am not saying you're wrong but no one else has said what the globe is saying.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Up to tenfold? More like starting at 20-fold, and up to 50-fold.

You think the housing bubble is something to be proud of?

Hang on ... they are all predominantly poor. Given how racist the USA is, the poor are predominantly black.

These aren't traditional black neighbourhoods. They were built in the early part of the last century, and were predominantly white.

And then they became black because of white flight

Why would one flee downtown based on race? Are you trying to suggest blacks are dangerous or something? This seems bizarre. Surely it's entirely related to poverty, and this would not have happened if there were constraints on growth, and Chicagoland had not been allowed to spread endlessly.

They didn't flee "downtown" (it's called The Loop) they left the entire city, especially the inner core. White flight was a major factor in the early sprawl of the major US metro areas, i'm not sure why you'd disagree unless you didn't know this already.

 

[nfitz]

You think the housing bubble is something to be proud of?

There's no significant housing bubble. At best prices are about 10% to 20% high. Not 200% to 500%. Are prices aren't massively different than the national averages, and no different that historical differences between Toronto versus rest of Canada prices.

They didn't flee "downtown" (it's called The Loop) they left the entire city, especially the inner core. White flight was a major factor in the early sprawl of the major US metro areas, i'm not sure why you'd disagree unless you didn't know this already.

You attribute the primary cause to racism. It's not. It's economic. If such sprawl was contained ... as it is in some places geographically, you don't get inner-city depopulation. Look at Manhattan ... Seattle ... etc.

You certainly had (have) racism and bad neighbourhoods in New York. But I don't find a single house for sale in the Bronx for less than $40,000. I'm not seeing many single family houses for sale in the Bronx for less than $250,000. Hmm, there is one odd one for $165,000 ... but other nearby properties are in the $390,000 range - so perhaps some bidding trick, or a major structural issue. And yet the Bronx is very non-white to this day - at least that's my observation wandering around when I've stayed there.

It's the geographical limitations of New York City, which have had the same impacts as zoning controls, that have kept house prices there relatively reasonable (if you stay out of Manhattan).