Politics: Tim Hudak's Plan for Ontario if he becomes Premier

[Palma]

You can also see, like I said, he wants suburban subways everywhere. I also think he will cancel the LRT order and get subway cars for the Eglinton line.

l
But is it as easy as cancelling the LRT order to get subway cars? I thought LRT stations are shorter than subway stations so cannot accommodate subway cars

 

[salsa]

l
But is it as easy as cancelling the LRT order to get subway cars? I thought LRT stations are shorter than subway stations so cannot accommodate subway cars

He wouldn't care if Eglinton got tiny 2 car subway trains, as long as it's a subway.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

l
But is it as easy as cancelling the LRT order to get subway cars? I thought LRT stations are shorter than subway stations so cannot accommodate subway cars

Apparently the tunnels are wide enough for subways. The tunnel they are boring are rather large. The stations right now will be built as shorter like you said unless something changes.

 

[nfitz]

I think you edited while I was typing

Yes, I saw your response, after I replied to the first article, so added the responses together 5 minutes later. I didn't spot your response until just now.

Yeah, it's hard to remember the whole timeline of GTTA-->Metrolinx--->Move2020--->Big Move.

And the 20 or so preceding plans!

I totally agree about changing horses. I don't think that's going to be enough to deter people sick of the Grits though.

And on the transit forum, if they think the NDP are going to do better (despite their poor history), then fair enough. I don't get the I'll vote for the anti-Transit Tories though, because they'll suddenly break their promises of freezing everything for years until they balance the budget, and build subways quickly.

It's kind of sad/amazing that the feds never came through with any more money

Why? The federal level of government has no history of funding transit, with the Conservative governments of the 1950s or 1980s, or the Liberal governments of the 1960s, 1970s, 1990s. It's only in 2001, when the Liberals suddenly funded part of the Canada line in Vancouver, which seemed to trigger the later Conservative funding of rapid transit in Toronto, Ottawa, and Kitchener.

 

[ehlow]

l
But is it as easy as cancelling the LRT order to get subway cars? I thought LRT stations are shorter than subway stations so cannot accommodate subway cars

The LRT stations can fit 3-car LRV trains, which is 90m. That should fit 3-4 car subway trains in terms of length (most subway lines have 6 car trains, Sheppard has 4 car trains).

Tunnels are wide enough. However, I wouldn't be too surprised that if it's fully underground it still uses LRV vehicles. There may be some factors, something about the tunnels that prevents the normal subways, or it may be because of the existing vehicle contracts, or not to waste the station design.

 

[jje1000]

Extremely sceptical of Hudak and his ilk. I don't have any faith in them being able to produce any of this, considering that he was part of the same cabinet that canned the Eglinton subway.

Mind you that he also propositioned uploading the subway portions of the TTC to GO, essentially plucking the money-generating parts of the TTC away from the city.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

The LRT stations can fit 3-car LRV trains, which is 90m. That should fit 3-4 car subway trains in terms of length (most subway lines have 6 car trains, Sheppard has 4 car trains).

Tunnels are wide enough. However, I wouldn't be too surprised that if it's fully underground it still uses LRV vehicles. There may be some factors, something about the tunnels that prevents the normal subways, or it may be because of the existing vehicle contracts, or not to waste the station design.

Well they actually have not built the tunnels yet, we'll see after the election. What they could do for the LRT order is extend to the Finch LRT across town to Markham Road in Scarborough.

 

[BurlOak]

The current PC transportation critic is a one term MPP who represents the transit hotbed of St Thomas.

I decided to look this one up.

Doug Holyday
Critic Role: Government Accountability & Management Board With Responsibility For GTA Issues & GTA Transportation

 

[ehlow]

Well they actually have not built the tunnels yet, we'll see after the election. What they could do for the LRT order is extend to the Finch LRT across town to Markham Road in Scarborough.

? They have built some of the tunnel. Anyways they aren't going to change the design of the tunnel with the contract awarded, they are building it as we speak.

The LRV order who knows. Maybe they could switch it easily. All I'm saying is that it's not outside the realm of possibility that if theoretically Eglinton went underground, it still uses LRVs. Anyways who knows.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

a couple of local politicians like to muse about it, nobody with the power to do anything about it really takes it seriously. as others have mentioned, ridership plummets north of Highway 7, the vast majority of the ridership north of Steeles comes from the RHC bus hub.

Actually, I'm not saying I'd advocate going up to Major Mac (and perhaps this is for another thread anyway) but there is an amazing out of development going on between 16th and Major Mac right now. If we had ongoing funding I could see going up there in the long term and there will be contiguous development along that corridor (north of there things REALLY fall off, because of the village) but I think Langstaff is clearly the immediate priority. As it is, just hop over to the Yonge subway thread to see what an uphill battle it is to get it north of Steeles.

Also, as I said the bus lanes are moving forward now so unless a subway announcement hits before, like, the summer, I'd say that ship has sailed for now.

 

[Hopkins123]

A fully grade separated Crosstown would be best win/win situation for everyone.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

? They have built some of the tunnel. Anyways they aren't going to change the design of the tunnel with the contract awarded, they are building it as we speak.

The LRV order who knows. Maybe they could switch it easily. All I'm saying is that it's not outside the realm of possibility that if theoretically Eglinton went underground, it still uses LRVs. Anyways who knows.

Oh I didn't know that. I thought they were not done drilling yet.

 

[nfitz]

A fully grade separated Crosstown would be best win/win situation for everyone.

I 100% disagree. Why spend an extra $1-$2 billion on something we don't need?

We could build a Don Mills LRT from Eglinton to Steeles with that. Or start a DRL.

The LRV order who knows. Maybe they could switch it easily. All I'm saying is that it's not outside the realm of possibility that if theoretically Eglinton went underground, it still uses LRVs. Anyways who knows.

Why would you change the vehicles? The current vehicles can easily handle the capacity. If you go to 4-car subway trains, like they have on Sheppard, then your tied to bigger-capacity, and a lower frequency.

Given the travel time is the same whether they use the current subway cars, or these new LRV cars, I'd sooner have the smaller cars, and more frequent trains.

 

[ehlow]

Oh I didn't know that. I thought they were not done drilling yet.

We're talking about Eglinton right? No they aren't done tunnelling, but they are in the process of doing so...

http://www.thecrosstown.ca/progress/track-the-tunnel-boring-machine

I'm just saying they won't change the tunnel properties at this time, it's way too late for that. The tunnel is wide enough for subway cars, but I was just speculating there may be some other reason LRVs might still be used.

 

[nfitz]

Absolutely no part of the subway turns a profit. If they take the subway capital expenses (roughly $400M/year) away from the city, it will be a net benefit for Toronto finances even if TTC operating subsidy goes up significantly.

The subway capital expenses aren't $400 million a year. It might be that much currently, because of the new train purchases, the replacement of a 50-60 year old signalling system, and major trackwork that has been put off since the Tories cut provincial funding to the TTC in the 1990s. But go back to the 2004 capital budget, before this all started. The entire TTC capital budget (non-vehicle) was only about $200 million a year, and that includes the streetcar tracks, streetcar power systems, bus garages, streetcar yards, IT infrastructure, offices, etc. I'd guess the subway is only 1/2 to 2/3 of that.