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Peterborough Commuter Rail

Ahh I see your point.

A bigger issue might be elevation. They just re-did all the rail in that area when the Morningside Heights subdivision was built a few years ago. And they elevated and grade separated the line over Finch, and redid the grade separation/bridge over morningside. So that, expropriation would still be needed, and residents might be unhappy about a rail bridge towering so close over their properties.

They could always tunnel under the rail yard, build the crossover elsewhere, or simply live with it (if the train frequencies are manageable).
 
Maybe the subdivision plans included a widened rail ROW? I find it kind of hard to believe that the City couldn't see any changes to the rail corridor coming when the subdivision was approved. Especially with newer subdivisions, cities are very cautious about maintaining an adequate ROW width for existing roads, even if widening is a long ways away. I would imagine rail ROWs would be the same, but I can't say for sure, because I've never had to deal with one.
 
News

The Peterborough Examiner had some updates in their July 26, 2013 article. Also, here is the link to the Metrolinx studies of the line (Peterborough Rail Study and Peterborough Rail Study appendices)

Rail line won't go to Union Station

By Brendan Wedley, Peterborough Examiner
Tuesday, July 23, 2013 11:49:30 EDT PM


The Peterborough-to-Toronto commuter train is being rerouted with the planned western terminus in mid-town Toronto instead of the major transit hub at Union Station, the president of the Shining Waters Railway initiative says.

Shining Waters Railway couldn't get the arrival and departure slots it wanted at Union Station.

“We couldn’t get in there at the rush hour morning or at the rush hour in the evening,†Tony Smith said.

Shining Waters Railway had been using Union Station in its planning as it has developed a case to support brining back commuter rail service between Peterborough and Toronto. Union Station was one of the eight stations along the planned route that was outlined in an economic impact study released in July 2011.

Now the project is looking at what it would take for the train to go to Summerhill Station, which is at Yonge St. south of St. Clair Ave. W., and Dupont Station, which is at Dupont St. and Spadina Rd., along an existing Canadian Pacific Railway corridor.

Both locations are next to TTC subway stops.

The ridership projections need to be updated to reflect the new planned stops, Smith said.

“We have to study all the impacts and all the costs of going to mid-town Summerhill and Dupont,†he said.

A study of the possible Peterborough-Toronto rail service that was commissioned by provincial transportation agency Metrolinx and completed in February 2010 contemplated using the Summerhill Station instead of Union Station as the Toronto stop.

CP Railway opened the Summerhill Station to passenger traffic in June 1916, but changes in the economy, train operations and rider preference ended up concentrating intercity passenger service for Toronto at Union Station, the consultants state in the Metrolinx report.

Summerhill Station closed in September 1931. It’s now used for retail stores, including and LCBO.

Shining Waters Railway wouldn’t use the former Summerhill Station, Smith said.

“We’ll put our own little station there, interconnecting with the subway,†he said. “We’re looking at linking up with different north-south stops that we’d interconnect with GO Transit … which will boost ridership and help out GO and ourselves.â€

Peterborough MP Dean Del Mastro, who led the creation of the Shining Waters Railway Authority, helped put together a plan that shows it would cost an estimated $233 million to refurbish the track, build new stations and platforms, upgrade existing stations and platforms, repair bridges along the route and buy rail cars.

The Shining Waters Railway feasibility study preliminary engineering design report is expected to be completed next year, according to Transport Canada and the Ministry of Transportation.

Del Mastro has said he has seen the preliminary version of the report and that it shows the project can be done within the budget.

Smith has said the objective is to have the Peterborough-Toronto passenger rail service running by 2017 or earlier.

brendan.wedley@sunmedia.ca
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With Del Mastro, in er, Shining Hot Waters, charged with campaign financing violations and kicked out of the Conservative Caucus (couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy), I wonder it the on-again, off-again project has any legs left.
 
MisterF said:
Only in Canada is a relatively short rail line serving a city of 80,000 considered pork. This is why our rail system is so terrible.
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Only a small fraction of that will use it.

If you asked those people if they would like a) a train to their town, or b) a cheque for $2900 each; I know which would be the popular option.

In reality, it's a $200M program to repair CP Rail lines for freight traffic. That type of government largesse was supposed to stop when CP was made private; it's a gift to the shareholders.
 
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CP was always private, it just got sweet terms from the Feds in exchange for building the transcontinental railway. It was CN that was public (parts of which were public prior to Nationalization) until the 1990s when it was completely sold off.

Though if there were federal funds to help out CP upgrade/restore a major freight corridor in exchange for getting a potentially very useful passenger service, I'd have no problem with it as long as it was above board.
 
rbt said:
Only a small fraction of that will use it.

If you asked those people if they would like a) a train to their town, or b) a cheque for $2900 each; I know which would be the popular option.

In reality, it's a $200M program to repair CP Rail lines for freight traffic. That type of government largesse was supposed to stop when CP was made private; it's a gift to the shareholders.
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Uhhhh, CP always was private, it was CN that was a Crown Corporation.

Both (national) railways get indirect subsidies when improvements are made for VIA or Commuter lines, but often w/the track remaining CN/CP owned.

However, our trucking companies largely get free use of a gov't subsidized highway system.

(rail and trucking both pay for heavily taxed fuel)
 
Northern Light said:
Uhhhh, CP always was private, it was CN that was a Crown Corporation.
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CP was privately owned but not privately funded. One of the motivations for spinning CN back off under private ownership was to prevent having to give handouts to both companies.

I should have been more specific and said removal from the public financing.
 
innsertnamehere said:
So suddenly we shouldn't build any inter regional rail just because it benifits private freight operators?
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I'd feel better about this project if they bought the subdivision and gave CP freight rights.

MisterF said:
Only in Canada is a relatively short rail line serving a city of 80,000 considered pork. This is why our rail system is so terrible.
Click to expand...
The original alignment (going into Union) was only going to generate 760 passengers per each peak direction train (2 AM-peak, 2 PM-peak) by 2031. The demand forecasts actually predict a decline in trips between Peterborough and Toronto between now and then of -26%. It's a capital cost of $150K per rider. Not being able to come into Union Station means that number will suffer even more (80% of people were expected to walk after alighting at Union, 20% by transit). Once the 407 East extension is built to Highway 115, it probably will drop again. Finally, of the 1520 daily trips, 1130 are expected to come off the GO Stouffville line, meaning there are only 390 new transit trips generated. If 74% of the Peterborough train comes from the Stouffville line, wouldn't the $230M be better spent on the Uxbridge subdivision with its 7,260 passengers or the Barrie line on the Newmarket subdivision?
 
innsertnamehere said:
So suddenly we shouldn't build any inter regional rail just because it benifits private freight operators?
Click to expand...

$230 Million dollars for 950 riders.

Do you believe spending upwards of $242,000 per rider to be a reasonable amount for transit investment? Projects at a fraction that cost per rider are rapidly shot-down due to having poor benefit.

Very limited expansion possibilities due to freight traffic. Whatever trains we get at the beginning is it until a 3rd track is built.

There is no guarantee CP will maintain the line well from that point forward and that it won't have speed restrictions again after 20 years.

It's not a very good inter-city passenger rail project.
 
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I was surprised to learn that they had abandoned the plan for an integrated station at Agincourt. It's an interesting placement at Brimley they have in that study since it eats up the school yard for two schools for the station's parking lot.
 
I'm not saying the plan makes sense, I am saying that the fact that CP gets some free upgrades shouldn't be affecting the decision making process.
 
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