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Ottawa Transit Developments

treplow said:
Who sold Ottawa their LRT sytem, Lyle Lanley?
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I think its turning out that the system itself is fine, its the people running it and maintaining it that are to blame. For example: Volkswagens are known to be very reliable cars but if you never take it in to be serviced, youre gonna have a bad time.
 
robmausser said:
Volkswagens are known to be very reliable cars ...
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I'm not sure that when challenging a post about a con artist, that using Volkswagen as the contrary example works very well..

www.reuters.com

Ex-VW CEO to face charges of organised commercial fraud

Former Volkswagen <VOWG_p.DE> Chief Executive Martin Winterkorn will face charges of conspiracy to commit organised commercial fraud with a high likelihood of conviction, a court probing the carmaker's diesel emissions scandal said on Wednesday.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com
 
W. K. Lis said:
The powers-that-be had originally thought that with the opening of their rapid transit lines, there was no need for buses or drivers. They had expected a reduction in employees. Doesn't look that way, does it?
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Doesn't help that the LRT simply doesn't work half the time; OCTranspo reportedly cancels something like 1% of their runs due to a driver shortage.

Many in Ottawa (when I lived there I held this opinion too) held that some parallel service should be maintained, and extra drivers be put into higher frequency. Didn't work out that way.
 
DirectionNorth said:
Doesn't help that the LRT simply doesn't work half the time; OCTranspo reportedly cancels something like 1% of their runs due to a driver shortage.

Many in Ottawa (when I lived there I held this opinion too) held that some parallel service should be maintained, and extra drivers be put into higher frequency. Didn't work out that way.
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They no sooner opened the Confederation Line, that they sold off all their surplus buses. It was craziness. Then they had given layoff notices to bus drivers long before LRT was to open and they ended up with a driver shortage. Then they not only cut bus service to downtown, and wrecked local downtown bus connections, but they also cut connecting bus service to the Confederation Line. The cost of maintaining the Confederation Line exceeded the cost of the bus service it was replacing, therefore, the need to make additional cuts. Then they couldn't get the promised 15 trains running, which just added passenger congestion and when it failed, the system was falling apart. The transit system was too dependent on one rail line.

I live in the south end of the city and the Confederation Line does not serve us, but we are forced to transfer to the Confederation Line for a few station ride, because they wanted as many buses out of downtown as possible.

LRT was supposed to deliver faster, and more reliable service to downtown. It delivers neither.

And now we face Phase 2 using the same trains without the confidence that it will work. We have also spent a fortune on Line 2, requiring a multi-year shutdown, AGAIN, and all it delivers for those living inside the Greenbelt is longer trains. No faster, no more frequent and still no direct service into downtown. The last will never occur based on current plans.

A rail system should make transit better. In Ottawa, it has not, at least not so far.
 
lrt's friend said:
They no sooner opened the Confederation Line, that they sold off all their surplus buses. It was craziness. Then they had given layoff notices to bus drivers long before LRT was to open and they ended up with a driver shortage. Then they not only cut bus service to downtown, and wrecked local downtown bus connections, but they also cut connecting bus service to the Confederation Line. The cost of maintaining the Confederation Line exceeded the cost of the bus service it was replacing, therefore, the need to make additional cuts. Then they couldn't get the promised 15 trains running, which just added passenger congestion and when it failed, the system was falling apart. The transit system was too dependent on one rail line.

I live in the south end of the city and the Confederation Line does not serve us, but we are forced to transfer to the Confederation Line for a few station ride, because they wanted as many buses out of downtown as possible.

LRT was supposed to deliver faster, and more reliable service to downtown. It delivers neither.

And now we face Phase 2 using the same trains without the confidence that it will work. We have also spent a fortune on Line 2, requiring a multi-year shutdown, AGAIN, and all it delivers for those living inside the Greenbelt is longer trains. No faster, no more frequent and still no direct service into downtown. The last will never occur based on current plans.

A rail system should make transit better. In Ottawa, it has not, at least not so far.
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Every day that username of yours looks more and more ironic.
 
lrt's friend said:
The cost of maintaining the Confederation Line exceeded the cost of the bus service it was replacing, therefore, the need to make additional cuts.
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I'd like to point out that this has never been anything more than theory created by you, so please don't try to pass it off like some fact.

The fixed-price nature of the LRT maintenance contract kind of makes this theory impossible. Perhaps additional cuts were made, but the cost to maintain the LRT is the same as it was estimated in 2012.
Also, they introduced the Route 15 specifically using the money that they claimed to have saved from the LRT launch.

Either way, I think it's clear that you're pointing your finger at the wrong part of the equation.
lrt's friend said:
We have also spent a fortune on Line 2, requiring a multi-year shutdown, AGAIN, and all it delivers for those living inside the Greenbelt is longer trains. No faster, no more frequent and still no direct service into downtown. The last will never occur based on current plans.
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It also provides a necessary capacity upgrade, reliability improvements, and two new infill stations in rapidly-densifying parts of the city. Come on now.
 
OCCheetos said:
I'd like to point out that this has never been anything more than theory created by you, so please don't try to pass it off like some fact.

The fixed-price nature of the LRT maintenance contract kind of makes this theory impossible. Perhaps additional cuts were made, but the cost to maintain the LRT is the same as it was estimated in 2012.
Also, they introduced the Route 15 specifically using the money that they claimed to have saved from the LRT launch.

Either way, I think it's clear that you're pointing your finger at the wrong part of the equation.

It also provides a necessary capacity upgrade, reliability improvements, and two new infill stations in rapidly-densifying parts of the city. Come on now.
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OK. That is fine. However, it has been published repeatedly that maintenance payments are $5M per month for the Confederation Line, which exceeds the $50M per year saving that was claimed as a result of eliminating downtown bus service. Perhaps, I am putting two and two together and assume that it equals 4. So, if I am wrong, then please explain where my assumptions are incorrect.

I have spoken with OC Transpo planners who explained how bus operations were constrained by a tight budget. So, why were service cuts implemented on many non-downtown routes when the Confederation Line opened? To pay for Route 15 that you mentioned? Or did the city slash the transit budget when the Confederation line opened? Or was there another explanation?

The principle flaw with Line 2 is the continuing constraints placed upon it by one track operations. Yes, we are adding two infill stations, and adding a grade separation, however, this does not improve frequency or address the slow speed of the trains that in certain locations move no faster than at a walking pace (Brookfield passing track). The capacity issue has been thrown in our faces repeatedly, and just like double decker and articulated buses, it is used to justify continuing lousy service. As someone who would like to use Line 2 more often, longer trains give me nothing. All I want is reliable transfers. There is no indication that Phase 2 addresses this.
 
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This bus driver shortage situation in Ottawa reminds of when Toronto opened its Bloor-Danforth Subway line (now Line 2). They had cut streetcar lines and reduced service on others, such as KING and DUNDAS, because it was tought most would use the subway for commuting. Turned out, they needed to continue service on KING and DUNDAS for "local" service. When Toronto opens its Line 5, the buses have to stay to support the "local" needs.

That seems to be the problem in Ottawa. They forgot the "local" services that their buses supplied.
 
Part of the issue in Ottawa is the mayor is set on a 3% tax increase it makes it hard for the city to have enough buses etc.
 
ARG1 said:
Every day that username of yours looks more and more ironic.
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You are not the first to say that. There is some rather lengthy history behind my name. I have been a critic of Ottawa's plans because they have cut corners at every step. What we have got has been underwhelming, a major disappointment for most Ottawans. LRT has become a joke in this city. Instead of solving problems, it has created problems. Hopefully, they will eventually get it right.
 
jayme2016 said:
Part of the issue in Ottawa is the mayor is set on a 3% tax increase it makes it hard for the city to have enough buses etc.
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Ottawa used to charge extra for 'express' service from the suburbs. This was eliminated as we moved toward a LRT hub and spoke system. The loss of 'express' revenue in the long run is starving the transit system.
 
lrt's friend said:
Ottawa used to charge extra for 'express' service from the suburbs. This was eliminated as we moved toward a LRT hub and spoke system. The loss of 'express' revenue in the long run is starving the transit system.
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That is part of it but the reality Ottawa taxes are way to low they should be around 6-7% so the city can get thing done it needs to.
 
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