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Ottawa Transit Developments

lrt's friend said:
I don't think this is a barrier. The original North-South project from 2006 (approved and funded) was to provide electric LRT service on the route without problem. Any issues that might have existed were already resolved at that time.
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It is absolutely a barrier.

The 2006 project would have removed much of the trackage from the North American network. That would have resolved any potential equipment issues - and why they were able to order off-the-shelf rolling stock.

Dan
 
lrt's friend said:
I know electric versions exist, however, are they compatible with the Confederation Line route and station platform designs? The answer is No. All the stations on the Confederation Line are designed for low floor LRVs and Flirt trains are not low floor vehicles. At the very least, every station would need to be substantially changed including those currently under construction. This would mean a lengthy closure of the current Confederation Line, likely to be measured in several months if not longer. Then there is the additional cost of these modifications which will be substantial.

The problem would have been solved by putting compatible trains on the Trillium Line and electrify the line now, while all the stations are being redesigned for Phase 2. That ship has already sailed. We are now set up for permanent incompatibility between the Trillium and Confederation Lines.
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Many FLIRTs including Ottawas are low floor
 
p_xavier said:
I really don't get it, a derailment in other cities and service is back on in hours at most. Anyone knows more of the technical challenges?
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A lot of us have been asking the same things.

It took 2 days for them to move the car out of the way.

It was more than 3 weeks before they had completed repairing/replacing the track components.

It will be almost 2 months before full service resumes (and that's only if they manage to get their ducks in a row).

There appear to be some very, very serious organizational challenges within the structure that operates the Ottawa LRT. That they didn't have the equipment necessary to deal with the August derailment seems particularly galling to me, especially in light of other derailments that they had previous to it. It appears that everything is reactive, rather than proactive. If I didn't know any better, I'd assume that the whole thing was set up to fail.

Dan
 
Does OCTranspo have any institutional expertise in working with/maintaining LRTs? Or did they contract that all out?

I ask because I think one of the huge downsides of our approach to public/private partnerships when it comes to procurement and operations is that departments see it as a way for outsourcing all expertise. And are then surprised when costs climb (on both fronts).
 
allengeorge said:
Does OCTranspo have any institutional expertise in working with/maintaining LRTs? Or did they contract that all out?

I ask because I think one of the huge downsides of our approach to public/private partnerships when it comes to procurement and operations is that departments see it as a way for outsourcing all expertise. And are then surprised when costs climb (on both fronts).
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It has been outsourced to Rideau Transit Maintenance (RTM)

The bigger concern is the lengthy rail shutdowns that seem to be considered acceptable. This started with Line 2 with numerous very long shutdowns since its startup in 2001. Now that problem is being replicated on Line 1. Ottawa seems to think that a second class bus replacement that can last for many months is good enough. OC Transpo and the city does not understand that it is in a customer service business, and of course, it is now driving riders away. This has been going on since the unnecessary 2009 strike.
 
smallspy said:
A lot of us have been asking the same things.

It took 2 days for them to move the car out of the way.

It was more than 3 weeks before they had completed repairing/replacing the track components.

It will be almost 2 months before full service resumes (and that's only if they manage to get their ducks in a row).

There appear to be some very, very serious organizational challenges within the structure that operates the Ottawa LRT. That they didn't have the equipment necessary to deal with the August derailment seems particularly galling to me, especially in light of other derailments that they had previous to it. It appears that everything is reactive, rather than proactive. If I didn't know any better, I'd assume that the whole thing was set up to fail.

Dan
Click to expand...
From what I understand the issue isn't the derailment, the issue is that this was the 2nd derailment in a 6 week timeframe. They decided to spend all the time they could gathering data and making fixes to try and prevent another one from happening.
 
lrt's friend said:
It has been outsourced to Rideau Transit Maintenance (RTM)

The bigger concern is the lengthy rail shutdowns that seem to be considered acceptable. This started with Line 2 with numerous very long shutdowns since its startup in 2001. Now that problem is being replicated on Line 1. Ottawa seems to think that a second class bus replacement that can last for many months is good enough. OC Transpo and the city does not understand that it is in a customer service business, and of course, it is now driving riders away. This has been going on since the unnecessary 2009 strike.
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The new boss of OC Transpo Renée AMILCAR is excellent at operations and maintenance, it was a good grab.
 
p_xavier said:
I really don't get it, a derailment in other cities and service is back on in hours at most. Anyone knows more of the technical challenges?
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Like @ARG1 says, the reason it's taken so long is because of the extra steps being required by the city to ensure that this can't happen again before relaunching.
smallspy said:
It took 2 days for them to move the car out of the way.
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The TSB didn't allow them to move the train until after two days had passed. Once they got the all clear, it took them a few hours.
smallspy said:
That they didn't have the equipment necessary to deal with the August derailment seems particularly galling to me, especially in light of other derailments that they had previous to it.
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They couldn't re-rail the train normally because the wheel had fallen (read: melted) off the axle. Hence the need for a specialized dolly. Not sure if that's standard rail equipment.
lrt's friend said:
This started with Line 2 with numerous very long shutdowns since its startup in 2001. Now that problem is being replicated on Line 1.
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Please don't act like these are the same.
 
ARG1 said:
From what I understand the issue isn't the derailment, the issue is that this was the 2nd derailment in a 6 week timeframe. They decided to spend all the time they could gathering data and making fixes to try and prevent another one from happening.
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Except that it was found really quickly that the two incidents had absolutely nothing to do with one another (except for perhaps poor maintenance practices).

OCCheetos said:
The TSB didn't allow them to move the train until after two days had passed. Once they got the all clear, it took them a few hours.
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So what?

Why is the TSB getting involved at all? The Confederation Line is not a federally regulated railway. I realize that they wanted the additional oversight, but there's no reason why they couldn't do what the TTC or STM or Translink would have done in that situation - send their own experts and staff, take lots of photos and measurements, and get the equipment moved out of the way as soon as possible to start the process of resuming service.

But Ottawa doesn't have any experts, it seems.

And therein lies the rub - they really make it seem to me that the point of the line isn't to actually move people. It's simply a point of pride, a feeling of "we're a real City, we have a real train now!!1!".

OCCheetos said:
They couldn't re-rail the train normally because the wheel had fallen (read: melted) off the axle. Hence the need for a specialized dolly. Not sure if that's standard rail equipment.
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Which they should have had in their possession already but didn't. Despite having at least 2 derailments previously. And despite having two cities only a several hours away whom they could have used for ideas and help.

If you operate a railway with limited clearances, or with equipment that has certain structural proclivities - say, a subway, or a low-floor streetcar - you better damn well have the equipment at the ready for when something happens. And it seems that the whole of the organizational structure of Ottawa is only prepared to point fingers when things go wrong, not actually fix the system and allow people to use it.

Dan
 
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