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OS X Leopard

I have used linux and still use linux (I have a farm of computers running linux - 4 in total). I started the process of replacing my dell laptop earlier this year (which I two hard drives for - one for linux, one for windows xp).

I was looking to replace the laptop with another computer that was reasonably fast (2.0Ghz+ dual core), could expand the memory to more than to GB, 7200RPM hard drive, able to add external hard drives (eventually for test databases), and could run a Unix/Linux operating system. I remember last time buying my laptop, there was always something that I could not fully configure under Linux. If Dell (at that time) had offered a laptop that they said would fully be Linux supported hardware -- I would have bought it. I gave up waiting. With my servers, I can always replace parts that are not working with Linux -- rather easily -- with a laptop it is more difficult.

When the new Macbook pro came out -- it satisified all my requirements -- so I bought it. I have configured it to be:
1920 x 1200 display, 7200RPM 160GB disk, 4GB of main memory, 2.4 dual core (Santa Rosa), added a Sonnet SATA hard drive controller, added an external portable case that holds two hard drives with proper cooling (InfoSafe from StarTech.com) - and installed two 750 GB hard drives. It now provides me a good platform that I can take my work with me anywhere -- and work remotely....

The one thing that I miss -- is being able to install Oracle 11g on the Mac operating system directly (last version 10g is for the non-intel hardware -- so it would just get killed since all the code has to be run through Rosetta translation software). According to my sources 11g should be available on OS/X intel sometime early next year. Until then I have to run it through a VM (VMware) on Linux.

Again I am quite happy with my choice.

Sometime in the future I will probably be in the market for a new server, at that time I will take a look at the Mac Pro.... (8 core processing, up to 32GB of memory).

Although the iMacs do not interest me, they do serve a large segment of the market. If you don't need a laptop, and don't need to expand the hardware -- i.e. you are just using it for word processing, browsing the internet, etc. the iMac is a good choice. It is simple, no mess of wires that make where-ever you place it look like a mess and provides you are fairly decent monitor. For some -- it is a good choice.
 
RE: Value for money...

When you take into account all the fully licensed software that comes included on your Mac (not countless shareware like on a Windows machine), it is actually quite a bargain.

For most people, iLife is all the software they'll ever need.
 
I don't care for most parts of iLife. Again, there are adequate freeware (open source) applications that perform most of those functions if that's what you need.

The bundled software argument is bogus, IMO. That software mostly has value zero, since it can be replaced easily with applications usually as good or better for free. OpenOffice, for instance, is as good, or about there (sometimes better, sometimes worse) than MS Office, except it doesn't cost several hundred dollars.

Mediaplayer classic (for Windows) and mplayer (for linux) beats the pants off quicktime, and it's free. etc.

In other words, when deciding to buy a computer, my value I assign to things like bundled MS Office (or Mac equivalent) is very close to zero.

As far as relative reliability, I haven't seen any independent studies that show Macs are any more stable than Windows PCs. Any arguments I have seen depend on anecdotes (I had PCs and they crashed, my Mac is perfect--there are people who say they crash just as often) or an argument that may sound reasonable but isn't backed up with statistics.

Beyond that, I think all current OSes are inherently flawed, so don't consider me a fanboy. We are still pretty far away from the goal of the computer as TV: take it out of the box, plug it in, and it works flawlessly for ten years. This is mostly the fault of a flawed OS design paradigm among Windows, Mac and Linux (enormous kernels).
 
I wish there was a crash proof computer. My Mac at work crashes at least once a week and my dell laptop at home is just as bad (and it’s new). If I was a little more computer savvy I would try out Linux.
 
I've used all three operating systems.

- I use Linux at home on servers (all put together from parts), it is a good operating system -- and runs Oracle and other server software well. I think the UI and some of the applications are a little rough around the edges. Running Linux on my Dell laptop was always a pain, there was always something that was not quite right -- the worst was the lack of drivers for some hardware like wireless networking (this seems to be improving of late - but you never know until you try it on new hardware). Overall very a very good operating system.

- Windows XP (won't touch Vista with a 10 foot pole) - I use it at work - along with a development environment, and Open Office (dropped Microsoft office for the developers). It does it's job. Unfortunately Microsoft seems more interested in investing it's time attacking (through illegal means) the Linux competitor (re: Balmer, SCO funding under the covers etc.). I do have a problem with running out of memory every once in a while, I think it has to do with logging in remotely through Remote Desktop -- so I have to reboot every few days. I hate the Microsoft registry.... I would prefer Microsoft do what Apple did -- maybe take their UI, and integration -- but use a Unix as the base operating system (Sun Solaris would be a good choice).

- Mac OS/X (Leopard is now a certified 2003 UNIX) - I run this on my Macbook Pro (at home) -- Everything that I can run on Linux (that is open source), I can run on my Mac (at least I have not found anything). IBM Websphere (MQ/J2EE), and Oracle on intel (until early next year), is not available for the Mac. Microsoft Office is available -- Open Office is available (native mac interface version is in development). The Mac is better when it comes to multi-media (by a fair amount) and integrating the software to work together. If I want I can run Mac OS/X Linux or Windows on their hardware. I actually prefer the Mac UI the best. Cost (at the time I bought it) was a difference of around couple hundred dollars more than a similarly configured Dell..... but right now -- the Apple has to bring their prices in line with the change in currency (which I expect shortly). It was worth the extra couple hundred dollars to me. Wifi just works (which is the major problem I had with Linux). My previous company which is a technical consulting company (of around 1000 employees), as of this month -- will allow their employees to choose either a Mac or a Dell (when I was their it was Toshiba and Windows). My current estimates is that the technical consultants will go around 80/20 in favour of using the Mac.

Each of the operating systems work (except for Vista :eek:) and are usable. Each has their religious backers, but in the end -- it is all about what you are happy with. If you have not used an operating system -- then your viewpoint is completely bias and without any foundation. Cost/worth is really in the eye of the beholder.
 
MetroMan said:
RE: Value for money...

When you take into account all the fully licensed software that comes included on your Mac (not countless shareware like on a Windows machine), it is actually quite a bargain.

For most people, iLife is all the software they'll ever need.
Click to expand...

Well, that's like saying the applications that have come free with Windows for years is all they'll need.

Afransen has already given a rundown, but I will add that Macs do come with their fair share of trial software. I was looking at a MacBook Pro and iWork, MS Office and FileMaker Pro are all trial versions.

I agree with cacruden - it's ultimately all about what you're happy with. I would love to get a MacBook Pro, but I'm having a difficult time justifying the additional cost (unless I can get it for a cheaper price of course). However, all OSes have their share of flaws - including Tiger/Leopard. I find it funny when Mac users sprout tag lines, clips from ad campaigns and catch phrases when it should be pretty obvious they're far from perfect.
 
Hydrogen said:
Funny, but that has not been my experience at all. My Mac has been trouble-free for over four years - in terms of hardware and software. It runs seven days a week. The operating system is stable, the multimedia features are great, and the software is high quality. That's not to say that all Mac's are always trouble free; no technology ever is.
Click to expand...

I could say the same thing about my PC with Windows XP.

Hydrogen said:
Recently, I created a nice range of documents for a multi-million dollar proposal - all on Pages. The people I did this for will never know that their project was generated on a software package that was less than a hundred bucks. It was very easy to learn, simple to use, much more flexible than I had thought it would be, and opens in other applications.
Click to expand...

In fairness, a lot of people using PC or Mac could make similar claims.
 
Productivity Software:
MS Office (never bundled for free - even it's most rudimentary commercial version is a couple of hundred dollars - up to $500+ if bought seperately).
Open Office - downloadable and free. It has reasonably word processing and spreadsheet capabilities - but even 2 years after moving to it -- it still pales in comparison to MS Office).
iWorks - I have not used very much so I really cannot comment on it to much. But from the little I have used of it -- I would say better than Open Office - less capable than MS Office. (based on word processing mostly)
MS Works (bundled free) - is a piece of crap.
 
just installed Leopard onto my machine. WOW. that's all i gotta say. my macbook is speeding along even faster than with tiger... i've yet to see something new i don't like.
 
I guess some cats got out of the cage early. Leopard is supposed to launch on Friday.

That's the thing about OSX. Unlike Windows, the OS gets more efficient and oiled as its development progresses. I have a friend with an iBook G4 who's looking forward to having her 3 year old computer work better than when she bought it.
 
MetroMan said:
That's the thing about OSX. Unlike Windows, the OS gets more efficient and oiled as its development progresses. I have a friend with an iBook G4 who's looking forward to having her 3 year old computer work better than when she bought it.
Click to expand...

...unlike my brother who's wondering what happened to the 2 year old DELL he had. He installed VISTA and POOF! It turned into an obsolete expensive calculator.
 
syn said:
I could say the same thing about my PC with Windows XP.

In fairness, a lot of people using PC or Mac could make similar claims.
Click to expand...

On the basis of your experience, on the first point, yes you can. On the second point, of course they could.

I haven't been arguing any Mac versus whatever-someone-else-prefers line. If you like what you are using, great. If it helps you to get the work you need done, then you're a step ahead. I was just mentioning my experience.

Previous to the Mac, I had Windows based machines running Windows98, which I found to be a pain in the ass. I switched to Mac because I found OSX a huge improvement over that, and a big improvement over the earlier Apple operating systems. I use XP periodically, but I like OSX much better. That's my preference. As for Vista, I have not had the need to upgrade my second computer. More likely than not, when it needs to go, it will probably be replaced by another Mac.

If you've got to use it, then buy what's best for you.
 
MetroMan said:
...unlike my brother who's wondering what happened to the 2 year old DELL he had. He installed VISTA and POOF! It turned into an obsolete expensive calculator.
Click to expand...

When XP was a few years old I installed it on a 6 year old computer and the performance increased significantly.

I've found Vista to be faster, though I don't have it on my main system. I don't see any need to upgrade yet.

I like some of the new features of Leopard, but I took a more detailed look at some of the 300 'new features' and it's even more ridiculous than I thought. Six new screensavers count for six new features. Since when is a screensaver a feature? Most of the DVD Player improvements are a joke. I give Apple credit for their marketing prowess, but any relatively experienced computer user should be able to see how silly some of these new listed features are.

By the way, has anyone used both the 17" MacBook Pro with the 2.4 GHz Core 2 Duo and X1600 ATI card vs. the newer model with the GeForce 8600 card? I saw the former on ebay for a decent price but I'm not sure how big of a performance difference their is.
 
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