Ontario Northland/Northern Ontario Transportation

[smallspy]

It won't be compatible with the older cars so there is no mix and match.

While they are still early renderings.....

All of the images shown by ONR thus far do show standard 27-pin MU and COMM plugs at the end of the loco. It is certainly possible to spec the trainsets with both Cat5 and 27-pin set-ups. Amtrak has spec'd their own sets like this.

Dan

 

[Bordercollie]

While they are still early renderings.....

All of the images shown by ONR thus far do show standard 27-pin MU and COMM plugs at the end of the loco. It is certainly possible to spec the trainsets with both Cat5 and 27-pin set-ups. Amtrak has spec'd their own sets like this.

Dan

But will the HEP systems be compatible? Otherwise you need to haul the HEP generator to tack on additional cars.

 

[smallspy]

But will the HEP systems be compatible? Otherwise you need to haul the HEP generator to tack on additional cars.

ONR uses the industry-standard 480V system. What's the concern?

Dan

 

[Bordercollie]

ONR uses the industry-standard 480V system. What's the concern?

Dan

Just wondering since I was told that the Siemens set for VIA is not compatible with their legacy fleet.

 

[lenaitch]

I can definitely see people from North Bay wanting to do a day shopping trip in Toronto in the winter using it, what wouldn’t be possible with public transit, as well as people with cottages in and around Huntsville wanting to avoid the traffic on Highway 11 in the summer. My question was whether the trains are even capable of this.

Where and when exactly would this happen? Loading vehicles (auto racks, ONR chain cars, etc.) has to be done and the end of the car, by railway crews (not the operating crew). Is the train and all of its passengers expected to sit while it backs into a ramp? At every station? Where would it happen in Toronto? At the TMC? How are people expected to get from Union to retrieve them?

If nothing else, it would turn the schedule into a multi-day trip.

 

[Bordercollie]

Where and when exactly would this happen? Loading vehicles (auto racks, ONR chain cars, etc.) has to be done and the end of the car, by railway crews (not the operating crew). Is the train and all of its passengers expected to sit while it backs into a ramp? At every station? Where would it happen in Toronto? At the TMC? How are people expected to get from Union to retrieve them?

If nothing else, it would turn the schedule into a multi-day trip.

The whole point of the train is for people to not drive. By bringing their cars with them increases congestion that we don't need.

As for people who have cottages, someone should build a regional shuttle service based on flat rate per person. Like an airport shuttle. Picks you up to meet the train, picks you up from the train station.

Considering that there is one trip in each direction that's 4 potential trips per day times the number of passengers. Some of those ford transit vans can carry 15 people. Sorry but you will have to leave your canoe at the cottage. This type of shuttle is used in ski resorts. Sometimes a full size bus is used and then you transfer to a van for your last mile destination.

 

[lenaitch]

The whole point of the train is for people to not drive. By bringing their cars with them increases congestion that we don't need.

As for people who have cottages, someone should build a regional shuttle service based on flat rate per person. Like an airport shuttle. Picks you up to meet the train, picks you up from the train station.

Considering that there is one trip in each direction that's 4 potential trips per day times the number of passengers. Some of those ford transit vans can carry 15 people. Sorry but you will have to leave your canoe at the cottage. This type of shuttle is used in ski resorts. Sometimes a full size bus is used and then you transfer to a van for your last mile destination.

Yup. Great opportunity for private industry.

Having worked for a shuttle service to Pearson, it would be somewhat more complicated in an area like Muskoka. With a shared-service vehicle trundling up and down winding cottage roads to offer door-to-door service, the size of the vehicle would be somewhat limited, and passengers at the 'far end' of a run might be on board for a very long time. But, you don't know if a business model works until you try it. It easier for places like resorts because it is point-to-point and can be discounted or embedded in the overall rate.

 

[dowlingm]

I think a Langstaff and Gormley stop is a good thing in 2022. The 905 has had substantial growth and even the prior Northlander should have had a schedule which should have had a stop north of Steeles.

The other one I always wonder about is Beaverton. I can't imagine the train is tearing through there given the number of level crossings and bridges in the village, and it provides a connection to the 81 GO route to Whitby (albeit not super-conveniently timing wise) as well as a jump off to Fenelon Falls and the lakes to the east

 

[ShonTron]

I think a Langstaff and Gormley stop is a good thing in 2022. The 905 has had substantial growth and even the prior Northlander should have had a schedule which should have had a stop north of Steeles.

The other one I always wonder about is Beaverton. I can't imagine the train is tearing through there given the number of level crossings and bridges in the village, and it provides a connection to the 81 GO route to Whitby (albeit not super-conveniently timing wise) as well as a jump off to Fenelon Falls and the lakes to the east

Langstaff is a really useful stop, but Gormley is just a platform and parking lot, not even any local transit connections anymore. Beaverton would require new construction (a platform and shelter) but Gormley would not.

 

[Bordercollie]

Yup. Great opportunity for private industry.

Having worked for a shuttle service to Pearson, it would be somewhat more complicated in an area like Muskoka. With a shared-service vehicle trundling up and down winding cottage roads to offer door-to-door service, the size of the vehicle would be somewhat limited, and passengers at the 'far end' of a run might be on board for a very long time. But, you don't know if a business model works until you try it. It easier for places like resorts because it is point-to-point and can be discounted or embedded in the overall rate.

Then have the shuttle go from the station to small communities and then let the local can company do the last mile.

 

[dowlingm]

Langstaff is a really useful stop, but Gormley is just a platform and parking lot, not even any local transit connections anymore. Beaverton would require new construction (a platform and shelter) but Gormley would not.

What would a platform of 3 car length and facilities equivalent to other ONR operations run to money-wise? Would the bigger issue be CN wanting it in a siding track? It looks like a 1.5km siding could be done there without crossing a road or river but that probably doesn't help unclog things much other than Northlander, Canadian, and maybe a GO excursion trainset...

 

[Bordercollie]

What would a platform of 3 car length and facilities equivalent to other ONR operations run to money-wise? Would the bigger issue be CN wanting it in a siding track? It looks like a 1.5km siding could be done there without crossing a road or river but that probably doesn't help unclog things much other than Northlander, Canadian, and maybe a GO excursion trainset...View attachment 445695

Probably at least one million dollars just for the siding.

 

[crs1026]

I’m not so sure that there should be multiple stops between Washago and Langstaff,, unless someone believes there is a market for travel between those points and the north. One north-end GTA suburban stop in a strategic location to deal with Markham/Vaughan traffic that doesn’t want to double back from Union is sufficient. (my logic says that the one stop should be close to the 407 as it has the best east-west transit connectivity).

It makes no sense to haul empty seats all the way from Timmins to support local service between Toronto and Beavertonish. If that market needs service, do it with GO bus or train service. This train needs to fill seats with passengers making longer haul journeys..

- Paul

 

[micheal_can]

This is my thought as well. This may also suggest that they have tentatively chosen VIA to do maintenance of the trains, as the Business Case was considering as an option. Having the same type of trains as them would certainly make that a lot easier for parts availability, expertise, etc.

My assumptions is that they would be maintained either in Cochrane or North Bay. Deadheading them to Montreal does not make sense when you have facilities that can do it much closer.

Also, is it possible to attach freight cars capable of carrying cars to these Siemens sets? That could be a successful service if un/loading facilities were constructed.

There really is no demand for it. Also, the time to unload or load it at each station would slow the train down even more.

What would a platform of 3 car length and facilities equivalent to other ONR operations run to money-wise? Would the bigger issue be CN wanting it in a siding track? It looks like a 1.5km siding could be done there without crossing a road or river but that probably doesn't help unclog things much other than Northlander, Canadian, and maybe a GO excursion trainset...View attachment 445695

I have wonder why there isn't anything there as well. I am guessing there just isn't the demand.

 

[smallspy]

Just wondering since I was told that the Siemens set for VIA is not compatible with their legacy fleet.

The MU and COMM are not compatible.

HEP is.

My assumptions is that they would be maintained either in Cochrane or North Bay. Deadheading them to Montreal does not make sense when you have facilities that can do it much closer.

They will be maintained at the TMC, which is being reconfigured to better suit the maintenance of the Siemens sets. Any running repairs will be done at Cochrane, where that work on the passenger equipment has always been done.

Dan