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News Roundup for August 23, 2024
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Novel Coronavirus COVID-19 (nCoV-2019)

Richard White said:
It sucks but it is needed.

To make it work though, a COMPLETE shut down is required. No open businesses other than grocery, medical or pharmaceutical along with a strictly enforced curfew.

None of this big box store being open because they sell groceries crap. Mandate the number of people from each household that can be in a store together at one time

I am sorry but if we cannot take a lockdown seriously this will not work.
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If the big box stores are limited to a number (as percentage) per floor space, then small stores should be able to do the same. For indoor restaurants, barbers, hair salons, etc., if the space between tables can be limited AND with partitions, then they should be allowed to be open, with restrictions and cleaning.
 
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DirectionNorth said:
You're not going to get full compliance. You cannot just tell people that we are shutting down, for a few weeks. That bridge was crossed last year. I think that society in general needs to have a discussion about whether continuing lockdowns into the summer is the best for society, in general. So I'll start it:

I think that it can be detrimental to society. It's true that lockdowns do reduce COVID transmission. It's also true that doctors are trained to think about public health, whereas politicians are *supposed* to balance all the factors out and make the right decision.

An entire generation's education was disrupted for a year, and millions of people have lost their jobs. How many lives were saved? I am wondering how much stress this has caused to society in general. Probably quite a lot.

What can we do? I support measures that reduce transmission (even slightly) more when they have lesser impacts. Masks, should stay until everyone is vaccinated. Lockdowns every other month should be eliminated as soon as everyone over 50 is vaccinated. And so on.
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As the last few months have shown us, it's not just about transmission of the versions of the virus around now, it's also about preventing mutation. Each infected person is another chance it will mutate into something deadlier or more transmissible. So yeah, avoiding the suffering now could make the suffering a whole lot worse. I'm astounded that there hasn't yet been at least several serious mutations come out of the US yet. The B.1.1.7 Variant (currently the variant spreading most here) increases transmission and hospitalization rates by more than 60%. What happens if another protein changes and it doubles transmission? What happens if it mutates to the point that the current vaccines are completely ineffectual?

toronto.ctvnews.ca

COVID-19 variants already having 'substantial impact' on Ontario health-care system, report finds

The number of people hospitalized with COVID-19 is now 21 per cent higher than it was when Ontario entered a provincewide lockdown in December and a new report from a panel of scientific experts advising the Doug Ford government warns that it could be weeks 'until the full burden to the...
toronto.ctvnews.ca

While it has been widely publicized that the B.1.1.7 variant that now makes up the majority of COVID-19 cases in Ontario is more infectious, the report reveals that there is also a 63 per cent increased risk of hospitalization, a 103 per cent increased risk of intensive care unit (ICU) admission and a 56 per cent increased risk of death from the so-called variants of concern.

They also say that the presence of the variants are driving a rise in hospitalizations involving younger people.

They say that between Dec. 14 and Dec. 20 there were 149 new admissions to the ICU but only 30 per cent of them involved people aged 59 or younger. By last week people aged 59 or younger accounted for 46 per cent of all 157 new ICU admissions.

“This is not a benign issue with these variants for people under 50 who felt that maybe with the initial COVID It wasn't a big deal. This for you now is a big deal,” Ontario’s Chief Medical Officer of Health Dr. David Williams said during a briefing on Monday afternoon, prior to the release of the report to the public.
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Let me repeat this for every person who thinks we should just let this run its course; it will only make things even worse.
 
W. K. Lis said:
If the big box stores are limited to a number (as percentage) per floor space, then small stores should be able to do the same. For indoor restaurants, barbers, hair salons, etc., if the space between tables can be limited AND with partitioned, then they should be allowed to be open, with restrictions and cleaning.
Click to expand...

Personally I am missing the American Black Friday store openings. Nothing quite like the days where you could trample someone, risk your life and get hit in the face just because you want to buy a TV
 
zang said:
As the last few months have shown us, it's not just about transmission of the versions of the virus around now, it's also about preventing mutation. Each infected person is another chance it will mutate into something deadlier or more transmissible. So yeah, avoiding the suffering now could make the suffering a whole lot worse. I'm astounded that there hasn't yet been at least several serious mutations come out of the US yet. The B.1.1.7 Variant (currently the variant spreading most here) increases transmission and hospitalization rates by more than 60%. What happens if another protein changes and it doubles transmission? What happens if it mutates to the point that the current vaccines are completely ineffectual?

toronto.ctvnews.ca

COVID-19 variants already having 'substantial impact' on Ontario health-care system, report finds

The number of people hospitalized with COVID-19 is now 21 per cent higher than it was when Ontario entered a provincewide lockdown in December and a new report from a panel of scientific experts advising the Doug Ford government warns that it could be weeks 'until the full burden to the...
toronto.ctvnews.ca




Let me repeat this for every person who thinks we should just let this run its course; it will only make things even worse.
Click to expand...
157 ICU admissions. How many people lost their jobs? Certainly more than that. I don't think we should let it run its course, but we also need to consider the effects on society. Continued lockdowns will have decreasing amounts of people adhering to them.

Ultimately, different restrictions have differing cost-benefit ratios, and a full lockdown like @Richard White described don't have a very good overall case, in my eyes.
 
zang said:
Let me repeat this for every person who thinks we should just let this run its course; it will only make things even worse.
Click to expand...

'Just run its course' implies no action whatsoever.

There is a distinction between arguing that a full lockdown or anything close isn't particularly effective or necessary; and arguing that society should do nothing.

There is obviously a vaccination strategy. Masks remain a thing. One can still cap gathering sizes; and place extra protections around those in LTC (the full recommended suite of which we have never implemented).

Toronto has had the longest, severest lockdown of any major centre in North America, with very little to show for it.

Perhaps its time to admit failure and move forward with a better plan.

Emulating BC would have served us well; or the Atlantic bubble, we did neither.

We went with a strategy that would not have been ideal had it been implemented in a timely way, and an effective manner.

Since we did neither of those..........

I'm all for prudent, effective action.

I don't believe continuing with grey zone lockdown is in fact supported by the epidemiological evidence; particularly as abutting regions are not under the same restrictions, and people are going back and forth in large numbers; its simply moot.
 
picard102 said:
We could start by opening up vaccinations to anyone who wants one.
When we have thousands of unbooked spots, it makes zero sense to keep restricting the delivery of the vaccine.
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In theory a good idea but then you will get everyone booking up timeslots preventing those who actually need it from getting shot.
 
picard102 said:
Those who "actually need it" aren't showing up. There isn't anyone who doesn't need this vaccine.
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Yes but in Phase 2 it opens up to a diverse range of people who could not get it in Phase 1.

Seniors and healthcare workers may not be showing up but there are a host of other people who will once vaccines open up. No doubt those who cannot work from home will get the vaccine in droves.

The only thing I can see preventing people from getting the vaccine is time off. People may need to take time off work to get the vaccine and that will affect the numbers a tad. If people have to choose between a free vaccination or working in order to feed their family, pay rent etc.. the choice is obvious.
 
Halton has announced the age restriction will drop to 65+ as of tomorrow.

I heard there is another big shipment of AZ arriving, but now it can't go to those under 55 so there's a big piece of the Phase 2 population that will have to wait. They should officially start with Phase 2 at this point now that they keep dropping the age.

And what about easing off on restrictions for those who are fully vaccinated? The CDC, for example, has said that vaccinated folks can now associate together. This does, of course, then raise the issue of proof. Can we go to a restaurant with our coworker because we have both been fully vaccinated? I saw someone post the other day that they "identify" as vaccinated!!!!
 
DirectionNorth said:
Continued lockdowns will have decreasing amounts of people adhering to them.
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Really what has happened after summer 2020 has been half-assed measures implemented too late. In my opinion that is what is doing damage. It gets drawn out and is not as effective. Quick and decisive measures could have made for some short term pain for long term gain.
zang said:
I'm astounded that there hasn't yet been at least several serious mutations come out of the US yet.
Click to expand...
Actually, B.1.527 was first discovered in New York and B.1.427 was first discovered in California. Both are apparently concerning.
 
PinkLucy said:
And what about easing off on restrictions for those who are fully vaccinated? The CDC, for example, has said that vaccinated folks can now associate together. This does, of course, then raise the issue of proof. Can we go to a restaurant with our coworker because we have both been fully vaccinated? I saw someone post the other day that they "identify" as vaccinated!!!!
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I support the concept of it - but do we have a society has the will to truly enforce this? We can't even summon the will to enforce the lockdown properly as is.

DirectionNorth said:
157 ICU admissions. How many people lost their jobs? Certainly more than that. I don't think we should let it run its course, but we also need to consider the effects on society. Continued lockdowns will have decreasing amounts of people adhering to them.

Ultimately, different restrictions have differing cost-benefit ratios, and a full lockdown like @Richard White described don't have a very good overall case, in my eyes.
Click to expand...

Poor messaging (just think of the convoluted, cross-purpose proclamations from say the Ontario government) and poor enforcement communicates that it is a paper tiger. Make public examples of violators - and the people will follow.

AoD
 
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