North American Transit System Ranking

[ehlow]

I guess this is good for all the complainers. But looking at the comments, Toronto will never do well enough for some of the people that live in the area.

I know of many who take transit and are not happy with the system due to the delays & problems, but they keep taking it because there isn't a better alternative (traffic and parking costs).

 

[JasonParis]

I haven't spent any time in Chicago, so I can't comment on the quality of their system. But I've had people from there visit toronto and say that the TTC is far better than whatever they have there.

I also read the other day (on the Atlantic Cities I think) that the CTA is of the only systems in the US losing ridership, in an era of growth for most. METRA (their GO equivalent) has gained somewhat though.

San Francisco is a really small city served by buses, trolleybus, modernized streetcar/pre-metro system, cable car, and regional express rail. SF has a LOT of transit for it's size. And the city is very walkable

My thoughts exactly. There's no other city in North America with more choices in rolling stock than San Fran.

 

[TOareaFan]

I'd love to see the income distribution of TTC riders vs. that of American systems. From my experience I can say there are a substantial amount of people who could easily afford a car who still opt to take public transit in Toronto.

It would be an interesting survey.....until then it is all anecdotal stuff.....I tend to be at the lower end of income range of my friends (that is the nicest way I could find to describe myself as the poorest guy in my social/work circle) but I am by no means poor.....and I can tell you that the reaction I get when I either take transit (or suggest to others that they/we do) is along the lines of "really, why? people do that?"

I remember the time I was going to a gathering at a friend's house....he lives 5-7 minute walk south of Bayview/Sheppard.....I left from my office downtown so just used the subway......when I showed up he answered the door and said "where's your car"...when I told him I took the subway he wondered how I got to his house from York Mills Station! So unaware/uninterested in transit that he is he never considered that there was a faster/easier station to get to from his place. He, like so many of my city dwelling friends, drives every day from there to a tower in the financial core.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I also read the other day (on the Atlantic Cities I think) that the CTA is of the only systems in the US losing ridership, in an era of growth for most. METRA (their GO equivalent) has gained somewhat though.

Well Chicago as a whole has seen it's population shrink by more than 100,000 between 2009 and 2012. That may have something to do with it. Admittedly, that should only result in a small dip in ridership.

 

[ehlow]

I also read the other day (on the Atlantic Cities I think) that the CTA is of the only systems in the US losing ridership, in an era of growth for most. METRA (their GO equivalent) has gained somewhat though.


My thoughts exactly. There's no other city in North America with more choices in rolling stock than San Fran.

Maybe we should bring back trolley buses to compete

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Maybe we should bring back trolley buses to compete

Gondolas! Swan boats! Innovation!

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I know of many who take transit and are not happy with the system due to the delays & problems, but they keep taking it because there isn't a better alternative (traffic and parking costs).

Of course. Along with the various subway delays at night as well, you would have a problem. To me the issue is people complain the subway is a stubway but won't pay to improve it. You get what you buy.

Well Chicago as a whole has seen it's population shrink by more than 100,000 between 2009 and 2012. That may have something to do with it. Admittedly, that should only result in a small dip in ridership.

*200k. Last census was ugly.

 

[Hipster Duck]

I remember the time I was going to a gathering at a friend's house....he lives 5-7 minute walk south of Bayview/Sheppard.....I left from my office downtown so just used the subway......when I showed up he answered the door and said "where's your car"...when I told him I took the subway he wondered how I got to his house from York Mills Station! So unaware/uninterested in transit that he is he never considered that there was a faster/easier station to get to from his place. He, like so many of my city dwelling friends, drives every day from there to a tower in the financial core.

And he lives within walking distance of a subway station. Imagine how illiterate he must be about how to get around by surface transit. Not that that should be a reason to build subways...

There are always people who will drive, no matter how punishing the city is for motorists or how good a transit system is. When they implemented congestion charging in London, traffic didn't drop inside the cordon, because uber-wealthy residents found it easier to drive within the congestion zone than before. Consider that these are for trips that are usually under 2 kilometers, and that these people then had to find a parking spot in Central London during midday. It's hard to see how this would have saved any more time than had they walked; it certainly would have cost more money than any other mode of travel, even a taxi, at those distances.

The thing with driving is that we have to throw all notions of rational behaviour out the window. People take immense pride in owning flashy cars and once you have a car, you use it. The decision making calculus that transit planners often use - that people juggle the monetary costs and time costs of a particular mode and route, and then choose the one with the most utility - is rendered completely meaningless. The greatest utility is driving your car, even if you're spending the highest amount of time and money to do so.

We have about as much leverage asking drivers like these to abandon their cars as we do in asking Rob Ford to resign for the sake of his own dignity.

 

[Translude15]

I haven't spent any time in Chicago, so I can't comment on the quality of their system. But I've had people from there visit toronto and say that the TTC is far better than whatever they have there.

Was in Chicago last April and rode the Red line to Comiskey Park and the Blue line to O'Hare area. The subway network covers a larger area than Toronto's but aesthetically, the TTC has the CTA beat.

Stations were much dirtier, unkempt, and understaffed. Subway cars are much smaller and narrower than what we have here, although that allows them to traverse the Loop. Additionally, underground stations have incredibly long platforms that are much longer than the lengths of the subway cars themselves.

Some passengers had to run towards the train as it had stopped entirely out of reach on the platform. Why the platforms are so long I have no idea. Perhaps trains were longer at one point but were shortened due to decreasing ridership.

System length aside, I would say the TTC is superior in terms of reliability, frequency, and customer service. The TTC isn't perfect by any means, but many seem to under appreciate its many strengths.

Chicago's commuter rail network (Metra) is superior to GO however.

 

[doady]

Just like walkscore it's based on a scoring formula rather than subjective experience.

However, I don't think many can really disagree that the top 3 in Canada are Toronto, Vancouver, and Montreal, although the ordering may be disputed (all three have close scores anyways).

Ottawa has the third highest per capita ridership in Canada. I would say top 3 is Toronto, Montreal, Ottawa. Ottawa's ridership is declining though because of Conservatives's massive cuts to the workforce, so maybe it really is 4th. Definitely better than Brampton though but these scores have them at the same. That makes no sense.

 

[ehlow]

Ottawa has the third highest per capita ridership in Canada. I would say top 3 is Toronto, Montreal, Ottawa. Ottawa's ridership is declining though because of Conservatives's massive cuts to the workforce, so maybe it really is 4th. Definitely better than Brampton though but these scores have them at the same. That makes no sense.

Really? Ottawa better than Vancouver? That's news to me.

The comments for this story on various websites is pretty funny, but predictable. People seem so convinced that Toronto must have the worst system in the world in every single way that they actually seem offended and outraged when anybody says anything remotely positive about it.

For example, I told someone that I had personally found the NYC subway stations to be dirtier than ours. They could not possibly believe that any other system would be worse in any way than the TTC, and all I said was that the stations there were dirtier.

I don't find that hard to believe that the TTC is a pretty good system compared to many other cities in North America, but I guess it shatters people's worldview that the TTC must be the absolute worst in the world.

 

[TOareaFan]

And he lives within walking distance of a subway station. Imagine how illiterate he must be about how to get around by surface transit. Not that that should be a reason to build subways...

His literacy matches his level of wanting to find out.....he, like most of the people I see/deal with/talk to just have no interest in using transit. It is only one man's subset of the world (but not a particularly small one) but the wealthier people I know and deal with have zero interest in using public transit.

 

[TOareaFan]

Ottawa has the third highest per capita ridership in Canada. I would say top 3 is Toronto, Montreal, Ottawa. Ottawa's ridership is declining though because of Conservatives's massive cuts to the workforce, so maybe it really is 4th. Definitely better than Brampton though but these scores have them at the same. That makes no sense.

These scores are not a measurement of ridership. They are a measurement of availablity of transit and how much you can live in a city with just transit.

Yes. Ottawa and Brampton got scores that, on the surface, look similar at 50 and 48......but those are huge differences when you look at the scale.

90–100 Rider's Paradise World-class public transportation.
70–89 Excellent Transit Transit is convenient for most trips.
50–69 Good Transit Many nearby public transportation options.
25–49 Some Transit A few nearby public transportation options.
0–24 Minimal Transit It is possible to get on a bus.

 

[ehlow]

His literacy matches his level of wanting to find out.....he, like most of the people I see/deal with/talk to just have no interest in using transit. It is only one man's subset of the world (but not a particularly small one) but the wealthier people I know and deal with have zero interest in using public transit.

You said he owns his house? He should at least have spent 30 seconds looking at Google maps to check where the subway stations are as basic real estate research when buying his house. Even if he never takes transit, it affects the property value of his house.

 

[doady]

These scores are not a measurement of ridership. They are a measurement of availablity of transit and how much you can live in a city with just transit.

Yes. Ottawa and Brampton got scores that, on the surface, look similar at 50 and 48......but those are huge differences when you look at the scale.

90–100 Rider's Paradise World-class public transportation.
70–89 Excellent Transit Transit is convenient for most trips.
50–69 Good Transit Many nearby public transportation options.
25–49 Some Transit A few nearby public transportation options.
0–24 Minimal Transit It is possible to get on a bus.

I don't think there is a vast difference between 49 and 50. Otherwise they would just tell us the category and not bother with the numbers. And in any case Ottawa actually got 49, not 50.

I don't believe ridership to be a 100% indicator of the quality of transit, but it says a lot.

OC Transpo has around 160 riders per capita. Brampton Transit is around 35. That's over four times difference, it's like MT vs. TTC. There's just no way these two systems are on the same level.

Vancouver and Ottawa might be explain by the fact these scores are based on municipal boundaries. So Vancouver covering a much smaller area has a huge advantage. Likewise, San Francisco covers a much smaller area than Toronto.

But still. 15 for Milton, 16 for Mississauga, 48 for Brampton, 49 for Ottawa. I think there is a serious flaw in these calculations.