North American Transit System Ranking

[TOareaFan]

So this methodology does not take into account:

-ease of transfers
-speed of transit
-what transit takes you to (just transit going through residential neighbourhoods, or is there retail or workplaces nearby?)

It does take into account

-how many routes are nearby/how close the nearest stop is
-what mode (heavy/light rail has a 2x high score than bus, ferry and cable car is 1.5x high than bus)
-frequency of transit

I think a better score would be how much* is accessible by transit within x amount of time, similar to walk score, which shows how many amenities are within x amount of walking distance. Also, it should be weighted according to where people live, if Ottawa's greenbelt and rural areas are poorly served by transit, that shouldn't matter. They already have the data and algorithms for this, seeing as you can get a map on their website of what is accessible within x amount of time from any given location, plus the amenities for walk score, plus they have the population of neighbourhoods for many cities that can be used for population weighting (though mainly for large central cities, there's no neighbourhood population breakdown for Brampton).

*This could be how much amenities, combining the data they use for walk score.

Frequency is probably how Toronto gets ahead of Chicago. Maybe distance to routes, but that I'm less sure of. Still surprised that New York isn't further ahead of Toronto though given how it has much more extensive subways which are weighted 2x what buses are. As for why Ottawa ranks so low, probably because it has just bus transit. The bus transit is largely BRT, so it's not like regular buses, it's a fair bit faster, but that won't be reflected in the transit score.


Nonetheless, it's interesting how well Brampton ranks compared to many American cities

Miami: 58
Minneapolis: 58
Providence: 58
Seattle: 57
Baltimore: 57
Pittsburgh: 54
Los Angeles: 50
Portland: 50
Buffalo: 50
Milwaukee: 49
Cleveland: 47
Denver: 47
Rochester: 46
St Paul: 45
St Louis: 45
Atlanta: 43
Salt Lake City: 43
San Jose: 41
Cincinnati: 41
Fort Lauderdale: 39
Dallas: 39
San Diego: 36
Houston: 35
San Antonio: 35
Kansas City: 34
Sacramento: 33
Austin: 33
Las Vegas: 32
Columbus: 30
Tampa: 30
Louisville-Jefferson: 28
Raleigh: 23
Indianapolis: 23
Fort Worth: 19

Once again, though, the scale isn't really linear. When you look at the definitions of the rankings there is a significant difference between Brampton's 48 and Pittsburgh's 54. Brampton may be at the top end of the range in the cities within its classification but if this is intended to be an annually updated survey it would be interesting to see what it takes to get into the 50s for that different classification.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Really? Ottawa better than Vancouver? That's news to me.

The comments for this story on various websites is pretty funny, but predictable. People seem so convinced that Toronto must have the worst system in the world in every single way that they actually seem offended and outraged when anybody says anything remotely positive about it.

For example, I told someone that I had personally found the NYC subway stations to be dirtier than ours. They could not possibly believe that any other system would be worse in any way than the TTC, and all I said was that the stations there were dirtier.

I don't find that hard to believe that the TTC is a pretty good system compared to many other cities in North America, but I guess it shatters people's worldview that the TTC must be the absolute worst in the world.

That seems to be the typical Toronto reaction to any good news about the city.

 

[lead82]

While the TTC is tops in Canada and North America, this is a low benchmark for comparison. North American public transit systems are underfunded and development/density patterns don't generally support good transit.

I think Toronto is an interesting if not sad case study. Toronto has a very large and fairly dense population. We have a very good transit culture in that anyone can and does ride transit from low income, students, seniors to professionals. While the TTC does a decent job, it is crippled by all levels of government who are not letting the system grow with ridership.

Think how much better the TTC could be if we didn't do silly things like replace 252 streetcars with only 204 new ones? Yes the new cars are bigger but why not order the same if not more and improve service. Same thing goes with the enrolment of articulated buses. We get bigger vehicles but less frequent service all in the name of efficiency. We are getting by on a transit system that needs to greatly expand and increase serviced throughout the city.

Think of how much better Toronto could be with more invested in transit. More subways, more LRT, more streetcars more busses and more cycling. I'd like us to be to transit what Copenhagen/Amsterdam is to cycling. This is why it's important that like minded people on his forum who care about transit vote for politicians that don't just spew empty slogans but are committed to investing in long term transit infrastructure.

We are entering another election season where all level of governments will see changes this year and next. The decisions made by us will influence how good the TTC will be 5-10 years from now.

 

[doady]

Once again, though, the scale isn't really linear. When you look at the definitions of the rankings there is a significant difference between Brampton's 48 and Pittsburgh's 54. Brampton may be at the top end of the range in the cities within its classification but if this is intended to be an annually updated survey it would be interesting to see what it takes to get into the 50s for that different classification.

A 6 point difference is a 6 point difference, no matter whether to crosses classes or not. The scores are not given based on classification. They calculated based on the amount of transit. Why don't you read the methodology?

http://www.walkscore.com/transit-score-methodology.shtml

Classification of a set of data is after the fact. There are always different ways to definr classes. The meaning of the numbers is open to intepretation. Those classes are merely Walk Score's intepretation of the results.

 

[TOareaFan]

A 6 point difference is a 6 point difference, no matter whether to crosses classes or not. The scores are not given based on classification. They calculated based on the amount of transit. Why don't you read the methodology?

http://www.walkscore.com/transit-score-methodology.shtml

Classification of a set of data is after the fact. There are always different ways to definr classes. The meaning of the numbers is open to intepretation. Those classes are merely Walk Score's intepretation of the results.

I did, that is how I was able to post parts of it upstream I just bet it a lot harder to get from 49 to 50 than it is to get from 48 to 49.....but, as I said, that will tell out if this survey repeats.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Really? Ottawa better than Vancouver? That's news to me.

The comments for this story on various websites is pretty funny, but predictable. People seem so convinced that Toronto must have the worst system in the world in every single way that they actually seem offended and outraged when anybody says anything remotely positive about it.

For example, I told someone that I had personally found the NYC subway stations to be dirtier than ours. They could not possibly believe that any other system would be worse in any way than the TTC, and all I said was that the stations there were dirtier.

I don't find that hard to believe that the TTC is a pretty good system compared to many other cities in North America, but I guess it shatters people's worldview that the TTC must be the absolute worst in the world.

That seems to be the typical Toronto reaction to any good news about the city.

No offense ehlow, but I don't care if the subway is dirty in NYC or Chicago or Philadelphia or Boston. I only spend 5-10 min there at most everyday.

 

[ehlow]

No offense ehlow, but I don't care if the subway is dirty in NYC or Chicago or Philadelphia or Boston. I only spend 5-10 min there at most everyday.

I don't really care that much either Den.

It was just an example of a situation where people refused to believe that the TTC was not the worst at everything, even minor things.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

No offense ehlow, but I don't care if the subway is dirty in NYC or Chicago or Philadelphia or Boston. I only spend 5-10 min there at most everyday.

Well your daily commute must be from King to Queen Stations and back again if you only spend 5 to 10 mins on the subway

 

[Rock]

Think of how much better Toronto could be with more invested in transit.

Simple solution maybe... though perhaps not what you were thinking of.

In another thread on UT:
http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/showth...s-Toronto-bike-friendly-)?p=833753#post833753

I proposed roofing over some toronto roads and putting some solar panels on top of those roofs (instead of consuming even more farmland in southern Ontario with solar panel "farms". The Canadian Solar Industries Association already warned about consuming more "prime agricultural lands":
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/solar-panel-ban-on-farmland-will-cost-ontario-group-1.782573

... while Toronto already has many acres paved (to put up parking lots, etc. - Now I feel a song coming on. Hehe...) that might be covered with roofs that would provide some weather shelter (dry pavements, etc.) and perhaps save tons of money in buying winter salt plus in road repairs.

And as I mentioned in that other thread, this idea is already being contemplated and built in countries in Europe, etc.

Recently I went to a public forum for the West Toronto Railpath (open house and presentation), but contractors were too busy evidently to give this thought any consideration.

I still suppose it might make for a useful experiment for the City of Toronto to try a canopy along at least part of that route.

The Province of Ontario has recently been shoveling large sums of money (your taxes) towards solar panel installations via their microFIT program.

The Ont. gov at least supports solar panel installation.

Think of how much better Toronto could be with more invested in transit this way.

 

[LNahid2000]

If we are talking about the city proper, again, Toronto is served by rail, subway, streetcar, and bus. I would argue that BART and Caltrain are not really serving the city proper, as much as Go trains simply brings people into city, but not around the city

BART does a better job of serving San Francisco city proper than GO does of serving Toronto proper because at least there is some fare integration between Muni and BART. For a $10 more than a regular monthly pass, you get unlimited BART rides (in San Francisco proper) in addition to Muni.

 

[King of Kensington]

While the TTC is tops in Canada and North America, this is a low benchmark for comparison. North American public transit systems are underfunded and development/density patterns don't generally support good transit.

I think Toronto is an interesting if not sad case study. Toronto has a very large and fairly dense population. We have a very good transit culture in that anyone can and does ride transit from low income, students, seniors to professionals. While the TTC does a decent job, it is crippled by all levels of government who are not letting the system grow with ridership.

Think how much better the TTC could be if we didn't do silly things like replace 252 streetcars with only 204 new ones? Yes the new cars are bigger but why not order the same if not more and improve service. Same thing goes with the enrolment of articulated buses. We get bigger vehicles but less frequent service all in the name of efficiency. We are getting by on a transit system that needs to greatly expand and increase serviced throughout the city.

Think of how much better Toronto could be with more invested in transit. More subways, more LRT, more streetcars more busses and more cycling. I'd like us to be to transit what Copenhagen/Amsterdam is to cycling. This is why it's important that like minded people on his forum who care about transit vote for politicians that don't just spew empty slogans but are committed to investing in long term transit infrastructure.

We are entering another election season where all level of governments will see changes this year and next. The decisions made by us will influence how good the TTC will be 5-10 years from now.

Absolutely. We are at a crossroads right now, and what happens in the upcoming provincial and municipal elections matter greatly.

 

[doady]

I just bet it a lot harder to get from 49 to 50 than it is to get from 48 to 49.....but, as I said, that will tell out if this survey repeats.

What kind of mathematical formula would selectively make 89 to 90, 69 to 70, 49 to 50, and 24 to 25 be worth more than any other interval? That makes no sense. I don't see why they would do that either. It would make their Transit Scores even more meaningless than they already are.

 

[W. K. Lis]

While the TTC is tops in Canada and North America, this is a low benchmark for comparison. North American public transit systems are underfunded and development/density patterns don't generally support good transit.

I think Toronto is an interesting if not sad case study. Toronto has a very large and fairly dense population. We have a very good transit culture in that anyone can and does ride transit from low income, students, seniors to professionals. While the TTC does a decent job, it is crippled by all levels of government who are not letting the system grow with ridership.

Think how much better the TTC could be if we didn't do silly things like replace 252 streetcars with only 204 new ones? Yes the new cars are bigger but why not order the same if not more and improve service. Same thing goes with the enrolment of articulated buses. We get bigger vehicles but less frequent service all in the name of efficiency. We are getting by on a transit system that needs to greatly expand and increase serviced throughout the city.

Think of how much better Toronto could be with more invested in transit. More subways, more LRT, more streetcars more busses and more cycling. I'd like us to be to transit what Copenhagen/Amsterdam is to cycling. This is why it's important that like minded people on his forum who care about transit vote for politicians that don't just spew empty slogans but are committed to investing in long term transit infrastructure.

We are entering another election season where all level of governments will see changes this year and next. The decisions made by us will influence how good the TTC will be 5-10 years from now.

There is an option to add 60 additional streetcars to the order. However, it has be pass the budget process. Hopefully, the next administration will complete the order.

 

[Electrify]

Haven't read all the comments in this thread, but I think the most frustrating thing with the TTC is how unadaptive its culture is. Like to hell with smart cards, they don't even take credit or debit cards at most stations. They are one of the last major systems on the continent to implement a two hour transfer or have a fare setup where passes are cheaper than tickets (not including the decade old "pilot project" on St. Clair), and have only just began to reintroduce articulated buses into its fleet.

Hell, they didn't even have any internal concept of customer service until some kid snapped a photo of a collector resting his eyes and the image went viral!

 

[innsertnamehere]

All that stuff costs money, and it isn't the culture at the TTC that is preventing it, it is the culture at city hall.