New Transit Funding Sources

[TOareaFan]

except how 60% of people believe that some form of tax should be implemented to pay for transit, they just disagree on exactly what tax.

Universally, what the polls show is that 60% support a tax...as long as its a tax on someone else.

Some prefer gas tax, some prefer road tolls, etc. In the end I hope that most people realize that the tax may not be their preferred option, but some form of tax is better than none.

yes, support for road tolls is there too...but support for that is much higher in the 416 and gets higher the closer to DT you get....I believe the assumption toll supporters make is that it would be on roads like the Gardiner and DVP and that some mechanism would be put in place to exclude 416ers (on the basis that they support the roads through taxation)....I would bet you support for road tolls would plummet also if someone said "but the tolls aren't to support the roads they are to raise money for transit expansion so there will be no exclusions"....again, as soon as taxation becomes personal, it gets ugly.

I also find it interesting how most think a higher corporate rate will not affect them, it will through higher costs of goods.

Also, higher corporate taxation does lead to some job losses....can't say how much but there are always businesses that are on the edge of, either, going out of business or going out of jurisdication.....any increase will either lead to some job losses or slower job creation levels (depending on where we are in the economic cycle)....but, again, it is an indirect consequence and therefore is hated less by the populace.

In this polling instance I would bet a portion of the support for corporate tax increases is another way of stating the hate for increased gas taxes....in other words, those voting "yes" for corporate increases were weighing it as an either or choice and support those over the gas tax.

 

[innsertnamehere]

thats pulling at strings for the road tolls, I don't think anyone is deluding themselves that they won't have to pay them. they aren't thinking 407 level tolls either though I'm sure, probably closer to 5-10 cents per km. (the gas tax actually sounds good compared to that, a 10 cent gas tax is roughly equivilant to between 0.8 - 1.2 cents per km)

 

[sixrings]

thats pulling at strings for the road tolls, I don't think anyone is deluding themselves that they won't have to pay them. they aren't thinking 407 level tolls either though I'm sure, probably closer to 5-10 cents per km. (the gas tax actually sounds good compared to that, a 10 cent gas tax is roughly equivilant to between 0.8 - 1.2 cents per km)

yes and when I buy my Fiat 500E it basically means I pay nothing for the roads. Great idea SMH. Just rewards new hybrid buyers in the city. Soon it will be 2014, slap a mandatory GPS on every car and toll every KM it drives, just a higher rate on the highways.

 

[innsertnamehere]

.. or a gas tax which effectively does the same thing and only further encourages electric car use. win-win. GPS based taximg might be needed a couple decades down the road but not right now.

 

[sixrings]

They already have GPS based insurance... The technology is here and we shouldn't be last to use it. A lot of people lease or trade in their cars after just a few years. My car is due next year. I don't see how its a win-win if I buy a hybrid but I don't contribute to the taxes which would help facilitate transit growth. Maybe I am being environmentally friendly but I am still taking up road space and I am not helping transit users at all.

 

[gweed123]

.. or a gas tax which effectively does the same thing and only further encourages electric car use. win-win.

Exactly. The gas tax is almost as much about encouraging the purchase of a more fuel efficient car than it is about changing commuting behaviour.

The Province already allows 'Green' vehicles to use carpool lanes, even if there's only one person in the car. A gas tax would be a similar benefit for those who choose to buy green vehicles. At 5¢/L, for most green vehicles that would mean an extra $4-5/month, depending on how much that person drives.

 

[Translude15]

The gas tax should be variable depending on the grade of gasoline. Premium gasoline would be taxed towards the higher end and regular stays towards the lower end.

 

[JWBF]

The gas tax should be variable depending on the grade of gasoline. Premium gasoline would be taxed towards the higher end and regular stays towards the lower end.

Actually, the reverse would work better. There should be greater revenue collected from medium grades.

 

[Translude15]

Actually, the reverse would work better. There should be greater revenue collected from medium grades.

Any luxury vehicle requires premium gasoline as do most lower-luxury brands.

 

[sixrings]

I think what JWFB is pointing out is that we need to tax as many people as possible and the lower end gas is sold more. Secondly people who need premium fuel for their cars usually are getting less per liter and therefore are buying more gas anyways.

 

[JWBF]

I think what JWBF is pointing out is that we need to tax as many people as possible and the lower end gas is sold more. Secondly people who need premium fuel for their cars usually are getting less per liter and therefore are buying more gas anyways.

Yes, in a fashion, it would generate more revenue, it would also equalize the revenue across the various grades. I'm also thinking about people using the improper grade for their engine and combustion. The environment and our pockets would be effected more over time.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Steve munro looking at this document covering the panels planned spending for the projects.. DRL completion in 2023? yes please!

http://stevemunro.ca/?p=9108



2015

UPX


2016

Spadina Subway
Richmond Hill AD2W
Union Station
Mississauga Transitway


2017

UPX Electrification


2018

Stouffville AD2W
Completion of VIVA BRT

2019

Sheppard LRT (?)
Barrie AD2W
Hurontario LRT


2020

Eglinton LRT
Hamilton LRT (but only half of it, the latter half has been put off, no idea what this entails)
Dundas BRT
Queen BRT
Durham BRT


2021

Finch LRT
Milton AD2W


2022

Kitchener AD2W


2023

DRL
Scarborough Subway


2024

-


2025

Yonge Subway (like the Hamilton LRT, "50%" completion. this presumably means to Steeles, with the rest to be completed at a later date)

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I really want to see SELRT pushed forward.

 

[gweed123]

I have to say, I'm really liking those timelines! One thing that really jumps out at me is beginning to spend money in 2015 on AD2W service on the Milton, Barrie, Richmond Hill, and Stouffville lines. Richmond Hill especially gets a $303 million investment right off the bat. My guess is this improvement is in lieu of a Yonge Subway extension, which under this plan has been pushed back until after the DRL.

Milton seems to be the longest timeline for AD2W, but I would guess that's because it has the highest number of upgrades, and the highest total cost attached to it for those upgrades. You have to wonder if the phasing for these AD2W projects will be done in such a way that mid-timeline there's the potential for increased peak service or occasional off-peak service as an intermediate service increase.

Unfortunate though that the electrification of the Kitchener and Lakeshore lines has been pushed off the priority list though. Hopefully some additional funding will come through at some point to push these projects up. And hopefully they will still be studied in-depth so that the implementation time can be reduced if funding does materialize.

 

[Admiral Beez]

I wish the provincial gov't just passed a general across the board income or value added tax increase to cover transit expansion. I believe Winn will, uhm, win and hold power for at least two terms. She needs to use that time to get transit funded, organized and well under construction before Hudak's replacement becomes premier.