Natural Grass in the Rogers Centre/Possibility of a New Baseball Stadium in Toronto

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

http://www.tsn.ca/bell-tanenbaum-to-own-argonauts-1.286511

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/football/cfl/argonauts-announce-sale-move-to-bmo-field-1.3080235

Full steam ahead for grass at Rogers and Argos at BMO. Sounds like BMO's big expansion gets started faster, too.

 

[wopchop]

This is the letter that went out to TFC supporters;

Dear Toronto FC Supporters,

Over the past year, a pressing issue in Toronto sports has been the search for the future home and ownership group for one of the city's most historic franchises, the Toronto Argonauts. That search involved a number of key parties, including the City of Toronto, the Canadian Football League and MLSE, as plans centered on a return of the Argos to the Exhibition Place grounds at BMO Field.

This afternoon, it was announced that Larry Tanenbaum and Bell Canada will assume ownership of the Argos beginning in 2016 and that the Phase 2 renovation plans for BMO Field, beginning in September, will also include a conversion to accommodate a CFL playing field, making BMO Field a true outdoor multi-purpose facility with numerous benefits to the City of Toronto.

Throughout the past year, in our many conversations with Toronto FC fans about a potential move of the Argos to BMO Field, we have reiterated the fact that MLSE's commitment to delivering the best soccer experience for TFC and its fans is unmatched. Because BMO Field is owned by the City of Toronto, we worked closely with different levels of government, including the Province and Federal Government, over the past year to help facilitate a solution while ensuring that TFC's interests were a top priority.

You are already well aware of the significant steps MLSE has taken to deliver on our vision for TFC. MLSE's ownership group has committed more than $100 million to the BMO Field renovation project, $100 million in roster moves for world-class players like Sebastian Giovinco, Jozy Altidore and Michael Bradley, and more than $3 million specifically on technology to ensure BMO Field has one of the best pitches in Major League Soccer. We have reinforced that BMO Field will always be, first and foremost, a soccer facility and that TFC will be the first priority when it comes to scheduling. Our focus for Toronto FC is rewarding our fans with a team that is capable of competing for a championship year in and year out and creating one of the best soccer experiences in the league for our fans. That will never change.

The Argos, and the Canadian Football League, are not only an iconic part of Toronto's sports landscape, but they are also a Canadian cultural institution and the team's move to BMO Field will play an important role in the rejuvenation of one of the oldest sports franchises in North America.

For TFC and Argos fans, we can look forward to bringing together Toronto's newest team with its oldest team under one, brand new roof at BMO Field in 2016!

Please feel free to contact your personal season seat holder representative if you should have any further questions.

Yours truly,

Tim Leiweke
President and CEO
MLSE

 

[TOareaFan]

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/football/cfl/argonauts-announce-sale-move-to-bmo-field-1.3080235

Full steam ahead for grass at Rogers and Argos at BMO. Sounds like BMO's big expansion gets started faster, too.

BMO's "big expansion" is not starting any sooner....in fact the "big" part of it is already done/open with the 8k new seats and the new boxes and club amenities. Phase II was either going to be the addition of a roof over 3 sides plus a new lighting and sound system or that plus end one work to fit the football end zones in.

It now looks like the latter but BMO's expansion start date is long past.

 

[Translude15]

Looks like a dirt infield might be a possible precursor to natural grass. Jays have never had a full dirt infield at home during their history so this would be a first.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/blue-jays-mulling-installation-of-dirt-infield/

 

[Jatt]

Looks like a dirt infield might be a possible precursor to natural grass. Jays have never had a full dirt infield at home during their history so this would be a first.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/blue-jays-mulling-installation-of-dirt-infield/

That least that's some progress if it happens. Grass + dirt infield would really change the overall experience of watching baseball at the Skydome.

 

[Up&Away]

http://www.tsn.ca/bell-tanenbaum-to-own-argonauts-1.286511

"Improve the fan experience"???? Wasn't Skydome built at the request of the fans to remove them from the elements? Why on earth would the CFL think that Argo fans would want to return to sitting in the rain and snow and freezing their butts off when they've enjoyed the comfort of an enclosed stadium for the past 30+ years. This move will definitely lead to the demise of the Argos. Even Toronto FC fans are looking for a covered space. Imho this is a giant fail.

 

[ChesterCopperpot]

"Improve the fan experience"???? Wasn't Skydome built at the request of the fans to remove them from the elements? Why on earth would the CFL think that Argo fans would want to return to sitting in the rain and snow and freezing their butts off when they've enjoyed the comfort of an enclosed stadium for the past 30+ years. This move will definitely lead to the demise of the Argos. Even Toronto FC fans are looking for a covered space. Imho this is a giant fail.

And they are getting one - so are the Argo fans

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

"Improve the fan experience"???? Wasn't Skydome built at the request of the fans to remove them from the elements? Why on earth would the CFL think that Argo fans would want to return to sitting in the rain and snow and freezing their butts off when they've enjoyed the comfort of an enclosed stadium for the past 30+ years. This move will definitely lead to the demise of the Argos. Even Toronto FC fans are looking for a covered space. Imho this is a giant fail.

Many teams in the 70's and 80's believed that an enclosed building would be an improvement to fan experience. 30 Yrs later we've found that sports such as football and baseball are best enjoyed outdoors and so we've seen stadiums move to an open air design instead of domes. Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, even Seattle and Minneapolis (which are further north than Toronto is) have moved towards open air stadiums.

Yes there is the chance of weather interruptions, however the level of enjoyment in an outdoor stadium outweighs the discomfort of inclement weather.

 

[nfitz]

... even Seattle and Minneapolis (which are further north than Toronto is) have moved towards open air stadiums.

Seattle? Seattle might well be further north than us, but they don't get anywhere near our cold. The last frost date for Seattle is mid-March compared to mid-may in Toronto.

How far north a city is, isn't the primary factor on climate. Other places further north than Toronto are Monaco, parts of Spain, and the Italian Riviera - that's Palm Tree country!

 

[MisterF]

Seattle? Seattle might well be further north than us, but they don't get anywhere near our cold. The last frost date for Seattle is mid-March compared to mid-may in Toronto.

How far north a city is, isn't the primary factor on climate. Other places further north than Toronto are Monaco, parts of Spain, and the Italian Riviera - that's Palm Tree country!

You seem to be ignoring that he mentioned Minneapolis, which is both farther north and colder than Toronto. As are most CFL cities with open air stadiums, including Ottawa, Montreal, and all the prairie cities. Same with Moscow, Helsinki, etc.

Toronto wanting an indoor stadium in the 80s had more to do with wanting the latest and greatest thing that everyone else was getting. BMO will be a far superior atmosphere for football than Rogers Centre.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

You seem to be ignoring that he mentioned Minneapolis, which is both farther north and colder than Toronto. As are most CFL cities with open air stadiums, including Ottawa, Montreal, and all the prairie cities. Same with Moscow, Helsinki, etc.

Toronto wanting an indoor stadium in the 80s had more to do with wanting the latest and greatest thing that everyone else was getting. BMO will be a far superior atmosphere for football than Rogers Centre.

I disagree about the "latest and greatest" thing, or they wouldn't have pushed for a retractable roof. It sometimes drives me crazy how they treat the dome as a closed stadium that can be opened in perfect weather, as opposed to an open stadium that can be closed when the weather is bad, but if you were ever at a rainy, cold May game at the Ex, it's hard to disagree with their choice.

Anyway, if they can play outdoor football in Montreal in November and in Wisconsin and Buffalo in December, they can do it here.

That said, Seattle has a retractable roof on its baseball stadium and they don't play into November. Their football team does play in the fall/winter and their stadium does not have a roof. Temperature/fan comfort are (generally speaking) less of a concern with football than baseball for various reasons. I suspect that, weather aside, BMO will have a better overall atmosphere than Rogers Centre did.

I'd have more sympathy for the TFC "leave our field alone!" crowd if they were some storied franchise and it was some sort of hallowed ground. But Wembley Stadium it ain't; it was built partly with public money just a few years ago and the team is perpetually horrible so I think it's an overall benefit to the city and city's sports fans to be sharing it with the Argos. (It may be my personal anti-soccer bias but the indignantion of a 3rd-class team in a 3rd-class league getting so uppity in a "major league" city seems a bit rich to me.)

 

[BurlOak]

Temperature/fan comfort are (generally speaking) less of a concern with football than baseball for various reasons. I suspect that, weather aside, BMO will have a better overall atmosphere than Rogers Centre did.

I think going to a cold stadium for 1 weekend game, when you leave from home and have the opportunity to dress for the conditions is easier than baseball, where they play everyday, more often night-time when they rely on fans coming after work.

 

[nfitz]

You seem to be ignoring that he mentioned Minneapolis, which is both farther north and colder than Toronto.

I quoted his use of Minneapolis - and he's not wrong. Not surprisingly, not all places further north than Toronto are colder! But Seattle isn't one of them ... if you go there in early February everyone has green grass on their lawn.

Same with Moscow, Helsinki, etc.

Surprisingly, despite being north of the Arctic Circle, Helsinki's winters are quite comparable to Toronto. Moscow is indeed significantly colder.

Toronto wanting an indoor stadium in the 80s had more to do with wanting the latest and greatest thing that everyone else was getting. BMO will be a far superior atmosphere for football than Rogers Centre.

What I remember in the 1980s, is the whining Argos fans complaining about getting cold at Exhibition stadium - though I have to admit those metal bleachers were frigging cold to sit on in October. And what's bizarre, is that people did sit, instead of stand. In theory it should be a better atmosphere. But will it work? The Argos demographic is increasingly elderly - far older than it was when they couldn't cope with the cold at Exhibition in the 1980s. I suppose if they manage to rejuvenate their support, then it would work. I fear though it will only hasten their demise.

 

[MisterF]

I'd have more sympathy for the TFC "leave our field alone!" crowd if they were some storied franchise and it was some sort of hallowed ground. But Wembley Stadium it ain't; it was built partly with public money just a few years ago and the team is perpetually horrible so I think it's an overall benefit to the city and city's sports fans to be sharing it with the Argos. (It may be my personal anti-soccer bias but the indignantion of a 3rd-class team in a 3rd-class league getting so uppity in a "major league" city seems a bit rich to me.)

True, and even Wembley is used for rugby and occasionally gridiron football, and has a hybrid field. And yes, TFC fans calling the CFL second rate is pretty ironic. Really though, the way that Toronto sports fans are diving into tribes is kind of strange. Do sports fans in other cities actively hate their cities' other teams they way they do here?

What I remember in the 1980s, is the whining Argos fans complaining about getting cold at Exhibition stadium - though I have to admit those metal bleachers were frigging cold to sit on in October. And what's bizarre, is that people did sit, instead of stand. In theory it should be a better atmosphere. But will it work? The Argos demographic is increasingly elderly - far older than it was when they couldn't cope with the cold at Exhibition in the 1980s. I suppose if they manage to rejuvenate their support, then it would work. I fear though it will only hasten their demise.

I keep hearing this "Argos fans are elderly" thing but I've never actually seen any proof of that. Even if it's true, the number of people watching on TV is huge (viewership dwarfs the Raptors and TFC) and that's a market that isn't being tapped into. It's also about creating new fans. The new ownership will be a lot better at expanding the fan base than anyone who's owned the team since John Candy.

 

[animatronic]

At this point I'm expecting the Toronto Rock to start insisting that MLSE install natural turf in the ACC.