National Geographic: St. Lawrence Market the world's best

[gabe]

Here we go again. Eating beef is fine. Eating dogs is cruel. Typical hypocricy.
When you kill someone, it is murder no matter how you did it. Let's not play the "I am more civilized than you" card and talk about markets and their products only.

Over here we call cats and dogs, pets not dinner food.

So when you and your children don't see it, those animals don't get slaughtered any more and they just magically show up beautifully on the shelves of the markets?
Humans are cruel. We eat innocent and defenseless animals. Deal with it. Not seeing it doesn't make one less cruel. What kind of animals, let it be beef, pigs, or dogs or monkeys, or how they were killed does not matter. It is killing.

Here in Canada we have legislation protecting animals from inhumane slaughter. Maybe you might find live animals being disembowelled at the markets is normal and "tradition" and part of the "culture" but to many of us over here we find that type of killing barbaric and satanic.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

So when you and your children don't see it, those animals don't get slaughtered any more and they just magically show up beautifully on the shelves of the markets?
Humans are cruel. We eat innocent and defenseless animals. Deal with it. Not seeing it doesn't make one less cruel. What kind of animals, let it be beef, pigs, or dogs or monkeys, or how they were killed does not matter. It is killing.

Seriously, man. Buy a life. You (apparently) live in Toronto. You need to live, at least at the margins, with Torontonian standards. And yes, I think that killing animals in a slaughterhouse is more hygenic and less objectionable than in the dirty streets of Kensington or at home in your backyard.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Unless one is using examples from say Singapore or Japan (maybe Korea), hygiene would be one area where Asian markets are at a distinctive disadvantage.

AoD

 

[Grimace]

I find it interesting that kkgg7 puts the requirement for "live fish" as something that a "great" market must have. He is objecting to the focus of SLM on western foods (which is clearly the focus) and suggesting that for a market to be great it must be more culturally diverse. However, having travelled through Asia and visited some wet markets in Hong Kong, Singapore, KL and in the Phillippines, I can't say I ever saw a culturally diverse selection of food, nor would I have wanted one. kkgg7, if you can think of a market, anywhere, that has both a good live fish collection and a cheese shop hosting an impressive selection of local and imported cheeses, I would be interested to hear. I'd be a little afraid buying cheese from a shop anywhere close to a chinese wet market.

I would be reluctant to say that we here in North America treat or slaughter our animals more humanely than they do in Asia, and I say that as a meat eater. Maybe we do, we certainly pay it more lip service, but I'm not confident we do. And there are certainly cultural differences in respect of treating and eating animals that are not necessarily better or worse, and some of the comments directed at kkgg7 seem to show a cultural bias, just as kkgg7's comments show a cultural bias. However, I also don't see anything wrong with having a cultural predisposition to keeping things like slaughter behind closed doors. I was recently buying a live fish from T&T with my 2 and 4 year olds in tow. While most of the staff were reasonably skilled at netting and hammering the fish, one was terrible. The fish would escape and flap all over the board, and she kept missing with the hammer. My 4 year old was staring in terror before I had the good sense to move them away from the fish section. Do kids that age need to see this? I don't think so. I'm not saying it's wrong (though that woman should be moved to the produce section), but it would be out of place at SLM.

 

[adma]

Kkgg7 defending the eating of dogs. Ah, if he were from a somewhat different part of Asia, I can picture him defending honour killing as well...

 

[Paleo]

Sanctimonious moralizing over eating one kind of animal instead of another. Priceless.

I suppose friendlier and cuter animals are more deserving of our protection than ugly and hostile ones. Not to mention smelly ones!

 

[kkgg7]

Over here we call cats and dogs, pets not dinner food.


Here in Canada we have legislation protecting animals from inhumane slaughter. Maybe you might find live animals being disembowelled at the markets is normal and "tradition" and part of the "culture" but to many of us over here we find that type of killing barbaric and satanic.

Asian urban people have pets too, in case you didn't know, and they don't eat them.
The dogs that are eaten are not raised as pets, not so differently from pigs and cows. The fact that "over here" people consider dogs as friends doesn't mean everyone should consider this as a moral standard. In some cultures cows are considered sacred, does that make eating beef barbaric?

"inhuman slaughter". humm, let me think... I will take defenseless animals' lives against their wishes for the enjoyment of their flesh and organs, but don't worry, I will make it quick and "comfortable". It is killing for Christ's sake. Stop the hypocrisy already! I am not in favour of animal cruelty, but your "I am more civilized than you" kind of thinking is amusingly hypocritical.

Barbaric? You guys eat half cooked beef steaks with blood on it, and raw cauliflower and broccoli... I guess it is always a matter of perspective.

 

[kkgg7]

Kkgg7 defending the eating of dogs. Ah, if he were from a somewhat different part of Asia, I can picture him defending honour killing as well...

and you consumes tens of thousands of turkeys every October, which we don't.
How does eating dogs particularly different? Because people in some countries happen to consider them as "friends", the whole world should consider dogs as different animals from other species? speaking of narrow mindedness.
eating dogs is no different from eating pork and beef whatsoever. so unless you are a vegetarian, you are in no position to judge dog eaters.

 

[LordWanker]

Asian markets especially the ones in China, are widely known for their animal cruelty. Probably why they didn't make the list.

Here we go again. Eating beef is fine. Eating dogs is cruel. Typical hypocricy.
When you kill someone, it is murder no matter how you did it. Let's not play the "I am more civilized than you" card and talk about markets and their products only.

and you consumes tens of thousands of turkeys every October, which we don't.
How does eating dogs particularly different? Because people in some countries happen to consider them as "friends", the whole world should consider dogs as different animals from other species? speaking of narrow mindedness.
eating dogs is no different from eating pork and beef whatsoever. so unless you are a vegetarian, you are in no position to judge dog eaters.

kkgg7, no one touched on nor suggested canine cuisine in Gabe's original posting. It was you who introduced that particular topic and went on and on about cultural insensitivity. Well it appears that you have no idea what cultural sensitivity is all about.

That reminds me, you still have not provided specific examples ( that can be referenced, not just described) of what you considered as a better market in this thread and in another thread.

 

[kkgg7]

I find it interesting that kkgg7 puts the requirement for "live fish" as something that a "great" market must have. He is objecting to the focus of SLM on western foods (which is clearly the focus) and suggesting that for a market to be great it must be more culturally diverse. However, having travelled through Asia and visited some wet markets in Hong Kong, Singapore, KL and in the Phillippines, I can't say I ever saw a culturally diverse selection of food, nor would I have wanted one. kkgg7, if you can think of a market, anywhere, that has both a good live fish collection and a cheese shop hosting an impressive selection of local and imported cheeses, I would be interested to hear. I'd be a little afraid buying cheese from a shop anywhere close to a chinese wet market.

I would be reluctant to say that we here in North America treat or slaughter our animals more humanely than they do in Asia, and I say that as a meat eater. Maybe we do, we certainly pay it more lip service, but I'm not confident we do. And there are certainly cultural differences in respect of treating and eating animals that are not necessarily better or worse, and some of the comments directed at kkgg7 seem to show a cultural bias, just as kkgg7's comments show a cultural bias. However, I also don't see anything wrong with having a cultural predisposition to keeping things like slaughter behind closed doors. I was recently buying a live fish from T&T with my 2 and 4 year olds in tow. While most of the staff were reasonably skilled at netting and hammering the fish, one was terrible. The fish would escape and flap all over the board, and she kept missing with the hammer. My 4 year old was staring in terror before I had the good sense to move them away from the fish section. Do kids that age need to see this? I don't think so. I'm not saying it's wrong (though that woman should be moved to the produce section), but it would be out of place at SLM.

Yes, I do have a cultural bias, just like those best markets list have strong cultural bias too. This is my whole point here.
Those markets are listed as the "best" only because they suit the typical western lifestyle. Does it make them the best "in the world"? I don't think so. Maybe "the best markets for a western customer" is a more appropriate title, isn't it? I hardly eat cheese, neither do billions of other non-western population on this planet, so variety of cheese means nothing to us, just like live fish and chicken means little to you guys.

My point is a westerner always like to write something like "the best XXX in the world" without knowing that it is "best" only for a white person of European descent, which accounts for only 25% of the world's population. This kind of cultural arragance is often insulting and ignorant. Only a few months ago, some white journalist made a list of "the most disgusting food" in the world as well, and the list is dominated by non-white so-called "ethnic" food. Does the fact that a white person dislikes how some food is made make this food disgusting? Is eating chicken gizzard or pork brain intrinsically more disgusting than, say goat cheese? As an Asian, I found pumpkin pie, ranch dressing, and eating any raw vegetable disgusting. I hate the smell of cinnemon, which people here seem to put it everywhere. Many Europeans even find peanut butter disgusting, and most Asian think the north American candies and cakes are horribly sweet.

The common mistake a person makes is take his own perspective as what the world should think, and this is why I find these "best markets in the world" lists misleading.

 

[kkgg7]

That reminds me, you still have not provided specific examples ( that can be referenced, not just described) of what you considered as a better market in this thread and in another thread.

Because there is no "best market" in the world! Best for what and for whom? I believe the vast majority of the Chinese population, for example, will think any of their street corner markets selling live fish, crabs and bak choy beats St Lawrance Market by a landslide. I can't even find tofu or leek in St Lawrence market, how can that be considered good for me?
Choosing the best market in the world is like selecting the prettiest woman in the world. The result is always biased. People differ in taste and preference.

 

[LordWanker]

That reminds me, you still have not provided specific examples ( that can be referenced, not just described) of what you considered as a better market in this thread and in another thread.

Because there is no "best market" in the world! Best for what and for whom? I believe the vast majority of the Chinese population, for example, will think any of their street corner markets selling live fish, crabs and bak choy beats St Lawrance Market by a landslide. I can't even find tofu or leek in St Lawrence market, how can that be considered good for me?
Choosing the best market in the world is like selecting the prettiest woman in the world. The result is always biased. People differ in taste and preference.

I asked for your examples of BETTER markets not best.

 

[ttk77]

Yes, I do have a cultural bias, just like those best markets list have strong cultural bias too. This is my whole point here.
Those markets are listed as the "best" only because they suit the typical western lifestyle. Does it make them the best "in the world"? I don't think so. Maybe "the best markets for a western customer" is a more appropriate title, isn't it? I hardly eat cheese, neither do billions of other non-western population on this planet, so variety of cheese means nothing to us, just like live fish and chicken means little to you guys.

My point is a westerner always like to write something like "the best XXX in the world" without knowing that it is "best" only for a white person of European descent, which accounts for only 25% of the world's population. This kind of cultural arragance is often insulting and ignorant. Only a few months ago, some white journalist made a list of "the most disgusting food" in the world as well, and the list is dominated by non-white so-called "ethnic" food. Does the fact that a white person dislikes how some food is made make this food disgusting? Is eating chicken gizzard or pork brain intrinsically more disgusting than, say goat cheese? As an Asian, I found pumpkin pie, ranch dressing, and eating any raw vegetable disgusting. I hate the smell of cinnemon, which people here seem to put it everywhere. Many Europeans even find peanut butter disgusting, and most Asian think the north American candies and cakes are horribly sweet.

The common mistake a person makes is take his own perspective as what the world should think, and this is why I find these "best markets in the world" lists misleading.

Or maybe you just need to not be so sensitive and realize that when anyone, in any part of the world proclaims something to be "the best in the world" they're doing so from their own ethnocentric viewpoint. I don't see why this has to be seen as arrogant or insulting. Do people in China never proclaim things to be "the best in the world"? If they do then I assume you would also say that they were being arrogant and insulting towards western cultures?

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Hell, the Chinese term for China - i.e. "Middle Nation" or "Middle Kingdom" - is a textbook case of ethnocentrism (another is "Nihon" for Japan). It's a pretty natural thing to view the world through one's own lenses, but one has to keep that sort of thing in mind and not give anyone a free pass. Besides, it isn't like the Chinese far from immune from these sorts of judgmental calls about cuisine from other cultures - and writing about them. Just because it isn't easily accessible to those who doesn't read/understand Chinese doesn't mean these sorts of things doesn't happen. Beyond that, I would really appreciate if kkgg7 don't speak as the leading expert of what Chinese people like and dislike, as if there isn't even diversity within that label to start of with.

AoD

PS: If you can't find leek (i.e. spring onions) at SLM, there might be a bit of a competency issue at work.

 

[Tewder]

Where's the harm in a little innocent hyperbole?... from National Geographic no less! Ringling Brothers boasted the 'Greatest Show on Earth', right? Let Kkgg7 chew on that for a while while he nibbles on his puppy sandwich!

... and by the way, turkeys make for notoriously bad pets!!