Multiple Victims of Shooting in Scarborough

[AKS]

I think the most immediate issue to solve is the gun problem. It seems to be really easy to obtain by kids on the wrong side. If there's no gun, the worse they can do is knife each other which won't result in immediate death nor cause major problems in large crowds. After the gun issue is resolved then we can focus on the gang problems.

 

[Marko]

What exactly are you referring to that's 'ridiculous'?

Don't even ask. He'll make ridiculous one liners trying to smear you and then disappear when you ask him to clarify or provide further support/explanation.

I think the most immediate issue to solve is the gun problem.

Haven't you heard - we're going to ban them (again, since they're essentially restricted now), and ban bullets too, because we know criminals will obey the ban.

 

[jje1000]

I think the most immediate issue to solve is the gun problem. It seems to be really easy to obtain by kids on the wrong side. If there's no gun, the worse they can do is knife each other which won't result in immediate death nor cause major problems in large crowds. After the gun issue is resolved then we can focus on the gang problems.

The gun ban won't do a thing, as criminals will likely smuggle guns in from the US. Bullets, maybe, but comprehensive control over any small object is impossible.

Again, the solution is largely preventative. Fund community groups, who are working within and between ethnic groups to change perceptions and educate parents; fund school programs so children and teenagers have something to do after school is over and to keep them from falling behind; heck, fund police outreach groups that can help mend the bridge between the police and the community. Some programs may not work, but it's far better than plugging the same amount of money used for these programs into the overall police budget.

 

[AKS]

Haven't you heard - we're going to ban them (again, since they're essentially restricted now), and ban bullets too, because we know criminals will obey the ban.

I never mentioned the ban, although Vaughn seems to want to ban all guns. What I mean is to toughen security on guns smuggling. It's somehow getting into the country and very easily obtained by kids. I'm sure even the police knows how to obtain them. In the papers today, there was a police officer suspended for illegally keeping guns at his home.

http://metronews.ca/news/toronto/29...f-charges-after-guns-seized-on-domestic-call/

 

[Palma]

Scarborough isn’t even a city anymore so why even bother saying it? By continuously saying Scarborough in every news article you are painting a huge swath of the city as somehow having involvement in a horrible incident in one small portion of the city. If this happened anywhere else in Toronto the media would never have referred to it as North York or East York and never ever Downtown Toronto….when was the last time a shooting in Jane-Finch was referred to as North York?!

But its ok to say SCARBOROUGH needs subways right? Then people on Scarborough unite against this false downtown vs Scarborough nonsense. Yet when there is a shooting guess we can;t say Scarborough. Even the LRt across Eglintpn, for some reason is referred to as Eglinton/Scaborough Crosstown. Why is that and why does that not anger residents in Scarborough. It should be called the Eglinton Crosstown. Parts of it runs across the old York

 

[jje1000]

Mayor Ford says it's 'time to declare war' on gangs
CBC News
Posted: Jul 17, 2012 6:42 AM ET
Last Updated: Jul 17, 2012 10:23 PM ET

Mayor Rob Ford blames the bloody Scarborough shooting that left two dead and 24 injured on gangs and says it's "time to declare war" on them.

Earlier in the day, Ford said "everyone has to move on and carry on with their life." But he sounded more aggressive later in the day.

"This is about gangs and gang violence," a statement said. "Frankly, it doesn’t matter if they hurt people with guns or knives, bats or bricks. There is no room in Toronto for violent gangs."

Ford said he plans to meet with Premier Dalton McGuinty soon to discuss gang violence, and will be calling on Prime Minister Stephen Harper for support.

"We must use every legal means to make life for these thugs miserable, to put them behind bars, or to run them out of town," he said. "We will not rest until being a gang member is a miserable, undesirable life."

He also called anyone who knows anything about the shooting or saw what happened to call police.

"Some people have suggested there is a gang war brewing," he said. "I don't know if that's true. But, I do know it's time for us to declare war on these violent gangs."
'This is the safest city in the world'

Earlier in the day, Ford stressed Toronto's safety at an impromptu news conference in Scarborough.

He called three high profile public shootings that took place in Toronto in less than two months are really "a couple of isolated and unfortunate incidents."

Ford said then that everyone has to move on with their life. "And the most important thing right now is that we apprehend the suspects and let the courts proceed as they may."

Ford told reporters he toured the scene of the shooting on Danzig Street, in southeast Scarborough.

"It looked like the aftermath of a party, except for a lot of gun casings," he said.

Although he said he was "bothered" by what he saw he still considers the crime an "isolated" incident. He didn't mention if he had met with any of the people forced to flee for their lives.

"I'm just here to support the police," Ford said.

And in spite of the recent brazen shootings at Toronto's Eaton Centre and in Little Italy, Ford continued to insist Toronto is safe.

"You know this is the safest city in the world. I've always said that, and I truly believe it, and the numbers show that."

He didn't specify which statistics he was citing, adding he was "very, very proud to live here. I was born here and intend to spend the rest of my life here. And I encourage other people to come here and enjoy this great city."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2012/07/17/toornto-ford-statement.html?cmp=rss


Gems from Ford:

"Everyone has to move on and carry on with their life."

A bit too soon to say that, especially if people have lost a loved one.

"I'm just here to support the police."

As always.

"A couple of isolated and unfortunate incidents."

Excluding the shootings at the Eaton Centre and Little Italy, all of which have had to do with gangs, with innocent bystanders being hurt.

"It looked like the aftermath of a party, except for a lot of gun casings."

Of course, this is coming from someone who had earlier declined federal gang prevention funding, so what can we really expect?
http://www.thestar.com/news/cityhal...-votes-against-free-money-for-gang-prevention

 

[TrickyRicky]

I agree with you AKS that tackling the gun problem is one of most important issues. I just don't know how this would be accomplished. I don't know many examples where a desired commodity has been effectively eliminated from a buyer group that desires that commodity.

On the issue of gang and youth violence I'm afraid I'm kind of deterministic as well. July is murder month. It always has been and always will be. We wil be ringing our hands about these incidences in our city for as long as anyone here on this forum is alive. There will always be marginalized disadvantaged youth. The socio-economic average is a moving target, meaning it doesn't matter how wealthy the poor are, they will always be poor relative to the average and hence will always exist.

We will always shake our heads at the foolishness of youth forgetting how it actually was to be young. Young men of any kind are not, nor have they ever, nor will they ever be endowed with a great deal of empathy. That doesn't mean all young men are so void in empathy that they can fire into a crowd, but some will always be and almost any can be trained to. What stupid things did you do because of your lack of empathy as a young man? Do you remember how it was cool or the pride you felt when you were associated with something that was bad or socially non-conformist or against the law? That is how a young man thinks so to say how could these monsters do this is like admitting you don't understand yourself.

 

[junctionist]

The gun ban won't do a thing, as criminals will likely smuggle guns in from the US. Bullets, maybe, but comprehensive control over any small object is impossible.

Again, the solution is largely preventative. Fund community groups, who are working within and between ethnic groups to change perceptions and educate parents; fund school programs so children and teenagers have something to do after school is over and to keep them from falling behind; heck, fund police outreach groups that can help mend the bridge between the police and the community. Some programs may not work, but it's far better than plugging the same amount of money used for these programs into the overall police budget.

I agree that preventative measures are key. But if the US undermines our gun control efforts by having lax laws and easy access to guns, maybe the federal government should also target the US. Perhaps we should spend some money lobbying against guns in the US, countering the NRA, amd providing low-cost help to American inner cities to discourage the criminal activity that happens with armed gang members. It's not our country, but it seems to affect our safety by providing a huge supply of guns for criminals to smuggle as well as possible crime networks, and models for gang activity. Part of the strategy needs to be changing the situation in the US.

 

[TheKingEast]

There's lots of peaceful familys in those areas , the question is how do the peacefull families or community members influence or help the dysfunctional families? People talk like why dont these people just fix the problem, well its not that easy or community activist would have solved the problem long time ago. One of the kids that got shot was actually an active member of his community in Oshawa, working with troubled youth, he was a good guy that got killed which makes it very sad. Its a constant battle, and every once in a while a person trying to help gets killed.

So what are you doing for the world......? besides being an online critic...

I do think the entire world needs to step up to end violence , which is carried out by both rich and poor people. Rich people = high tec gangs like - the Pentagon/ nationl/ and corperate militaries/ corrupt police foreces ect. Poor = low tech street gangs

People only seem to care when they're affected or when something makes front page news. This is precisely why I can't take some individuals in here seriously. Won't do a single thing to help, but will sit atop their soap boxes and point fingers. There is no easy fix, there is no one group of people to blame but the murderers themselves. Many young, innocent black men and women have been killed over the years and not a peep from the "critics". But as soon as something big happens, guess who pops up to push their agenda.

To the critics. What do you do for your community? I'm in the trenches and do as much as I can for the disadvantaged. I have several friends who work with at risk teens. Guys like Max and Marko are so far removed from these communities and seem to regurgitate the same tired, bigoted rhetoric.

There are a small group of knuckleheads that are causing this problem...yet some here will shame an entire race of people...and that seems to be OK here.

 

[TheKingEast]

But its ok to say SCARBOROUGH needs subways right? Then people on Scarborough unite against this false downtown vs Scarborough nonsense. Yet when there is a shooting guess we can;t say Scarborough. Even the LRt across Eglintpn, for some reason is referred to as Eglinton/Scaborough Crosstown. Why is that and why does that not anger residents in Scarborough. It should be called the Eglinton Crosstown. Parts of it runs across the old York

If you don't think the media plays up certain areas especially when violence occurs, then you're out to lunch.

The media is not dumb. They use a lot of buzzwords and know what will appeal to their audience

There have been countless stories where Jane/Finch is mentioned, yet the incident happened nowhere near Jane/Finch. Same with Rexdale and other areas.

 

[AKS]

I agree with you AKS that tackling the gun problem is one of most important issues. I just don't know how this would be accomplished.

I'm not sure if working with the US will work since they seem to allow guns. The gangs seems to know how to obtain guns. They probably need to set up stings to infiltrate and gather information that the gangs know. Then follow the leads to find the groups that are smuggling it in and catch them. I know that there will always be new groups arising, but at least doing something is better than nothing. I'm sure the police probably have stings running because I've read in the papers they've confiscated a large amount at one hide out. Maybe the police isn't gathering enough info, cuz the kids are still able to access guns with no problems.

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

I agree that preventative measures are key. But if the US undermines our gun control efforts by having lax laws and easy access to guns, maybe the federal government should also target the US. Perhaps we should spend some money lobbying against guns in the US, countering the NRA, amd providing low-cost help to American inner cities to discourage the criminal activity that happens with armed gang members. It's not our country, but it seems to affect our safety by providing a huge supply of guns for criminals to smuggle as well as possible crime networks, and models for gang activity. Part of the strategy needs to be changing the situation in the US.

Back when Chrétien and the Liberals were pondering legalization of marijuana George Bush made or issued a public statement, a threat actually if memory serves, with undertones of trade tensions between our two countries if Canada went ahead with it, which they didn't. My argument at the time was for the US to help stop American guns from getting into Canada and we'll do our best to keep our legal smoke out of the USA.
Since Obama was elected the right-wing propaganda machine got it out there that Obama was going to take away their guns, so gun sales went through the roof and are more accessible than they ever were, which is bad news for us up here but good for the NRA which is more powerful than ever.
I'm not against guns - rifles that is, but I think there need to be tight controls, licensing, tracking, security clearances and training for anyone who applies to buy a rifle, for the purpose of hunting. Handguns, automatic or semi-automatic weapons, forget it.

 

[isaidso]

It only takes 1 bad apple to ruin it for everyone. Toronto likely has 10-20 thousand bad apples: aggressive, violent, evil, self absorbed people who have no consideration for others. Some beat their wives, some cheat and steal, some kill.

I don't have the answers, but I'm also not surprised this happened. Every once in a while I encounter a person like this just walking down Yonge Street. Instinctually, I make way for them on the sidewalk. I know they're bad news and all it will take is for me to look at them the wrong way.

 

[Red October]

nsfw

[video=youtube;OuX-nFmL0II]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuX-nFmL0II[/video]

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

It only takes 1 bad apple to ruin it for everyone. Toronto likely has 10-20 thousand bad apples: aggressive, violent, evil, self absorbed people who have no consideration for others. Some beat their wives, some cheat and steal, some kill.

I don't have the answers, but I'm also not surprised this happened. Every once in a while I encounter a person like this just walking down Yonge Street. Instinctually, I make way for them on the sidewalk. I know they're bad news and all it will take is for me to look at them the wrong way.

Poor Yonge Street just can't get a break. If you run into someone every once in a while on Yonge St. that makes you uncomfortable stay away from downtown's east side, and the Annex, and Queen West/West Queen West and ....