Metrolinx: Sheppard East LRT (In Design)

[W. K. Lis]

From the Transit City Light Rail Plan: Status Update for February 2009:

The options for the LRT connection at Don Mills Station on the Sheppard Subway, which were presented in the Environmental Study Report (ESR), are being reviewed in conjunction with the Metrolinx Regional Transportation Plan (RTP) and its vision to have a continuous east-west service across northern Toronto via Sheppard and Finch Avenues. An option which would facilitate this, and may be feasible, would be an extension of the Etobicoke-Finch West LRT, east of Yonge Street to Don Mills Road, and then south to meet the Sheppard East LRT at Don Mills Station. Both surface and various grade-separated arrangements for this possible connection at Don Mills Station are being studied. The effects on costs and schedule for the Sheppard East LRT project are being analyzed.

If this will happen (and it is only if) then the options to extend the Sheppard subway might not happen, since the LRT could continue up Don Mills to Finch East, and then continue westward on Finch East and Finch West.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

From the Transit City Light Rail Plan: Status Update for February 2009:


If this will happen (and it is only if) then the options to extend the Sheppard subway might not happen, since the LRT could continue up Don Mills to Finch East, and then continue westward on Finch East and Finch West.

Why are bad ideas like this so persistent?

 

[Rainforest]

"The options for the LRT connection at Don Mills Station on the Sheppard Subway, which were presented in the Environmental Study Report (ESR), are being reviewed in conjunction with the Metrolinx Regional Transportation Plan (RTP) and its vision to have a continuous east-west service across northern Toronto via Sheppard and Finch Avenues. An option which would facilitate this, and may be feasible, would be an extension of the Etobicoke-Finch West LRT, east of Yonge Street to Don Mills Road, and then south to meet the Sheppard East LRT at Don Mills Station. Both surface and various grade-separated arrangements for this possible connection at Don Mills Station are being studied. The effects on costs and schedule for the Sheppard East LRT project are being analyzed."

If this will happen (and it is only if) then the options to extend the Sheppard subway might not happen, since the LRT could continue up Don Mills to Finch East, and then continue westward on Finch East and Finch West.

This option is worth considering, but a few points should be analyzed first:

1) Is Finch East wide enough for a surface LRT line? I surveyed the street once, and the section between Yonge and Leslie does not look particularly wide (definitely not as wide as Finch W or Sheppard E). In the vicinity of Yonge, it is just four lanes, even without left-turn lanes. In addition, there is a steep hill halfway between Bayview and Leslie. Rail vehicles do not like that kind of landscape.

If it happens that a large portion of that "Finch E LRT bypass" has to be tunneled, then the cost rises dramatically, and the wisdom of such investment becomes questionable.

2) At 22 kph, will the combined Finch - Sheppard LRT route be attractive as a true cross-town operation? Note that the city is wider in the north than at the Eglinton or Bloor-Danforth level, due to the lake's geometry.

If the vast majority of riders take a portion of the route anyway, then is it so important to create a cross-town? Of course, a large potential market is the connection between York U and the north-east, but for that purpose, extension of Sheppard subway to Downsview might be a better bang for the buck.

3) An underground terminal has been planned for Sheppard East LRT if it ends at Don Mills. But the Don Mills LRT is supposed to run at the surface level near Sheppard. Connecting the two lines would pose a challenge on its own.

Though, there exists a proposal (from Karl Junkin) to run the LRT bypass just east of Hwy 404 between Sheppard / Consumers Rd and Finch. This implies the extension of Sheppard subway to Consumers Rd, while the light rail would stay on surface.

4) It is not clear how the bus service on Finch east of Don Mills would be organized. Would the bus route terminate at the LRT stop, and force a transfer and potential capacity issues? Would the buses be redirected to the Sheppard subway terminus? Or, would they continue to run to Yonge / Finch, express between Don Mills and Yonge? Either solution has certain drawbacks.

 

[Rainforest]

Why is the Sheppard LRT first, again?

Not necessarily in contempt of subways. I guess the reasoning was like that: Eglinton is a very complex engineering; Finch W engineering partly depends on the Spadina subway extension; Don Mills and Jane have issues with the narrow southern sections. So, Sheppard E emerged as the simplest first go.

Nevertheless, the simplest choice might not be the most wise. I'd rather start with "Scarborough South" LRT (Eglinton east of Kennedy - Kingston Rd - UTSC), then Finch W, then the main Eglinton (and incorporate the Eglinton - Kingston segment).

The multitude of objections, amendments, and technical hurdles that the Sheppard E LRT (or the "Sheppard - Finch" crosstown) encounters, suggests that the original concept might not be so great.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Stop the Sheppard LRT, business group says

From The National Post of Friday, March 6, 2009:

Stop the Sheppard LRT, business group says
Posted: March 06, 2009, 6:00 AM by Rob Roberts

It could be a bad sign for an invasive public transit megaproject if the very people the line intends to serve don’t like the idea.

Such is the plight of the Sheppard East LRT, the first piece of the City of Toronto’s plan to criss-cross Toronto with a network of light rail lines. Yesterday, 500 businesses that line Sheppard Avenue East, between the Don Valley and Markham Road, called on the Province of Ontario to stop the line, calling it a poorly-planned, inadequately-funded mess.

The businesses say the Toronto Transit Commission should delay the project until it has the money in place, the plans complete and a firm, funded order for vehicles to carry passengers on the line.

“Where’s the money coming from?†asks Mark Bozian, who employs 100 people at his companies, the Brimell Toyota dealership and body shop on Sheppard Avenue East. “They’ve already proven that they can f--- it up. They did that down on St. Clair.â€

As on St. Clair, the light rail right-of-way will forbid cars from traveling on the two centre lanes of Sheppard Avenue East.

The Sheppard East Village Business Improvement Area released a list of 10 questions for the TTC. Among the questions, they ask why plans are going ahead when there is no design for streetscape improvements on Sheppard, no decision on how the line will cross a GO train line, and no decision on how to connect to the Sheppard subway at Don Mills Road. And they add, “We question why construction would be completed ... two years before required tram cars will be available.â€

Surveying crews have been busy on Sheppard lately, says Mr. Bozian, vice-chair of the BIA. He says his group regularly meets with the TTC, but has not had clear answers to its questions.

Adam Giambrone, chair of the TTC, rejected calls yesterday to delay the project.

“We will begin issuing contracts in the coming months and construction will begin in the summer or early fall,†he said. He said the TTC has $50-million in its capital project this year for work on Sheppard.

The TTC has proceeded on Transit City with a great deal of bluster. The 120-kilometre, $8-billion project will take 15 years to complete. Engineers and draftspeople designing Transit City fill a whole floor in an office tower in North York, although the provincial and federal governments have yet to give a penny to the project.

Mr. Giambrone repeated that bluster yesterday.

“I think if you ask the residents of the neighbourhood, the overwhelming sentiment is, ‘just get on with it,’†he said. “There is a very clear desire to get on and start building some of the infrastructure.â€

Brad Ross, the TTC spokesman, acknowledged that the TTC still doesn’t have money to buy rolling stock for Sheppard.

“You’re right, there isn’t a commitment for vehicles yet, we’re hoping to have that commitment this year,†he said.

So if there’s no money and no plan, what’s the rush to start the Sheppard LRT? One answer might be the mayoral election next year.

A credible challenger to Mayor David Miller from the right will win strong support in Etobicoke and North York. Mr. Miller needs to win Scarborough. He wants to show Scarborough (short-changed when the Sheppard “stubway†ended at Don Mills Road) that it is his first priority for new rapid transit.

Many voters in Scarborough ride the TTC. They deserve better transit, and even the local BIA agrees that the LRT is a good idea.

However, a giant transit boondoggle on Sheppard East, à la St. Clair, may not be so good for the mayor.

The NIMBYes are coming out. Interesting that the spokesman in the above article has a car dealership. Surprise, surprise. Of course a car dealership would be against any rapid transit, it is competition.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

The NIMBYes are coming out. Interesting that the spokesman in the above article has a car dealership. Surprise, surprise. Of course a car dealership would be against any rapid transit, it is competition.

Actually, it won't be remotely competitive with the car. It may not even be competitive with the existing bus service.

 

[Second_in_pie]

They really shouldn't rush into this project. They need to find out where the cars are even going to come from and make sure they're going to get enough by the time the line's finished. Maybe they should even rethink their priorities for the transit city plan, because out of all the lines, Sheppard is NOT the most important line.
To that article, maybe the TTC could show that a lrt is faster than a bus (probably on the St. Clair lrt) and the locals will be against less against it.

 

[jamesbow]

Car availability for Sheppard East is not a problem, since the current streetcar procurement covers replacement of the current fleet ONLY. Transit City is in addition to the streetcar replacement purchase, and the cost of building each line is supposed to include the cost of purchasing enough new vehicles to run on each line.

...James

 

[RedRocket191]

To that article, maybe the TTC could show that a lrt is faster than a bus (probably on the St. Clair lrt) and the locals will be against less against it.

They did that in the EA. The bus averages about 17 km/h, while the LRT is estimated to average about 25 to 27 km/h. A subway travels at about 30 to 35 km/h.

Unfortunatly, since we don't have a demonstration project it's very easy for critics to say "we don't believe those numbers."

 

[Rainforest]

They did that in the EA. The bus averages about 17 km/h, while the LRT is estimated to average about 25 to 27 km/h. A subway travels at about 30 to 35 km/h."

For the planned stop spacing on Sheppard E, their model predicted 22 km/h.

25 to 27 km/h might be achieved on a line with a sizeable underground section, like Eglinton.

 

[RedRocket191]

For the planned stop spacing on Sheppard E, their model predicted 22 km/h.

25 to 27 km/h might be achieved on a line with a sizeable underground section, like Eglinton.

You're right. My bad. The point it that it's faster than the bus will be.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

They did that in the EA. The bus averages about 17 km/h, while the LRT is estimated to average about 25 to 27 km/h. A subway travels at about 30 to 35 km/h.

Unfortunatly, since we don't have a demonstration project it's very easy for critics to say "we don't believe those numbers."

Well, those critics are right, because those numbers aren't correct.

The EA says 22-23 km/hr for 440m stop spacing. 800-1000m stop spacing would be faster (25-27 km/hr) but as modelled, the vehicles will be stopping at red lights, anyway, so they decided they might as well put stations everywhere.

The average speed of the Sheppard bus can only be 17 km/hr only when the *entire* route, from Yonge to Meadowvale, is included. The speed of the 85 from Don Mills to Meadowvale is 19.4 km/hr during the AM peak, 21.7 during the day, 18.1 during the PM peak, and 21.3 during the evening.

The speeds are identical outside of rush hour (and assume no additional Rocket services, no queue-jump lanes, or POP, or signal priority, etc.). What these numbers don't say is that the 85 actually gets faster the farther east you go...Sheppard's congestion drops off as you go east. The bus plying the stretch of Sheppard slated as the highest priority segment of Transit City is possibly already faster than the streetcar ROW will be (assuming the TTC operates it as smoothly as the computer model, of course). This also does not factor in frequency reductions, longer walking distances to stops, etc...and when the real difference is as little as 1 or 2 km/hr, even one minute of added walking time or one minute waiting time can mean longer travel times.

 

[kEiThZ]

The NIMBYes are coming out. Interesting that the spokesman in the above article has a car dealership. Surprise, surprise. Of course a car dealership would be against any rapid transit, it is competition.

It isn't NIMBYism. There is real frustration for the businesses along Sheppard. And the more they learn about it, the more they are upset by the idea. They aren't against the LRT. They are against how it's being implemented. I know their complaints because my father owns a small store down the street from Brimell and he's deciding right now whether to close down or not as are other stores nearby. Brimell, being one of the larger businesses is simply voicing the frustrations for the rest.

The businesses are concerned that the construction is going to harm business during the current downturn. That's a double whammy. Then there's the timing. The TTC says that the LRT will bring foot traffic to the businesses. Yet, if the line isn't going to be running any time soon after construction, businesses will take another hit as they loose drive-in traffic as left turns become cumbersome, and walk-in traffic doesn't materialize. The last (and relatively minor) concern is that the city isn't making sufficient effort to improve/beautify Sheppard. Though, that one I am sure will happen in due time.

So there are real concerns. I would like the city and the TTC to address them. I'd like to see the city act on the BIA's proposal to provide temporary tax relief during construction and I'd like to see the TTC move quick with it's project and construction management efforts so that there are no significant delays between the track being laid and LRT service along Sheppard. Most importantly, I wish they'd be more transparent. I could swear UT has more relevant info on the Sheppard East LRT than the TTC is providing to the business owners.

 

[W. K. Lis]

It isn't NIMBYism. There is real frustration for the businesses along Sheppard. And the more they learn about it, the more they are upset by the idea. They aren't against the LRT. They are against how it's being implemented. I know their complaints because my father owns a small store down the street from Brimell and he's deciding right now whether to close down or not as are other stores nearby. Brimell, being one of the larger businesses is simply voicing the frustrations for the rest.

The businesses are concerned that the construction is going to harm business during the current downturn. That's a double whammy. Then there's the timing. The TTC says that the LRT will bring foot traffic to the businesses. Yet, if the line isn't going to be running any time soon after construction, businesses will take another hit as they loose drive-in traffic as left turns become cumbersome, and walk-in traffic doesn't materialize. The last (and relatively minor) concern is that the city isn't making sufficient effort to improve/beautify Sheppard. Though, that one I am sure will happen in due time.

So there are real concerns. I would like the city and the TTC to address them. I'd like to see the city act on the BIA's proposal to provide temporary tax relief during construction and I'd like to see the TTC move quick with it's project and construction management efforts so that there are no significant delays between the track being laid and LRT service along Sheppard. Most importantly, I wish they'd be more transparent. I could swear UT has more relevant info on the Sheppard East LRT than the TTC is providing to the business owners.

I guess the example set by the building of the Yonge subway could be a warning of how bad business became as it was being constructed and the aftermath after it was finished.

Except that the construction will not be as bad as when the Yonge subway was being built.

 

[kEiThZ]

Why don't they go to Yonge North approach and demand a subway? Doesn't even make sense not to mention it.

From a business point of view, that'd be disastrous for some businesses. Sheppard East BIA would benefit since there would be no construction in its area. Keep in mind, that most of the businesses in the corridor are small businesses who are already struggling with the downturn. The inconvenience arising from construction will probably push many over the edge. So from that perspective LRT is probably better (quicker and lower impact construction, customers at surface level, etc.).